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  1. #51
    Senior Member Emotionalogic's Avatar
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    Enneagrams:
    Jeff: 9w8 sp/so
    Abed: 5w6 sx/so
    Troy: 7w6 sx/sp
    Pierce: 8w9 sp/sx
    Britta: 1w9 sx/sp
    Annie: 2w3 so/sp
    Shirley: 2w3 so/sp

  2. #52
    Riva
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emotionalogic View Post
    Enneagrams:
    Jeff: 9w8 sp/so
    Abed: 5w6 sx/so
    Troy: 7w6 sx/sp
    Pierce: 8w9 sp/sx
    Britta: 1w9 sx/sp
    Annie: 2w3 so/sp
    Shirley: 2w3 so/sp
    Thank you for taking your time to reply to me. I'll reply back when i have time.

    Regarding your enneagram typing i have to disagree with you especially on britta. She's a 6w7. But since you said you are not much into enneagrams we'll avoid arguing on it.

    Also next time quote me or the person you are replying to.

  3. #53
    Riva
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    As promised here goes:

    Quote Originally Posted by Emotionalogic View Post
    I agree with you about Shirley.

    You agree with me about Jeff.

    Britta's se is childish and tertiary, not aspirational and secondary. She's a fe user, not a fi user, which is why she's such a nut for therapy. She doesn't reflect on her own emotions the way a fi user would. Her ideals are egalitarian fe ones displayed in a loudmouth extroverted manner. She has no filter whatsoever, let alone a Jungian screen between her and the external world. She suffers from a failure to think clearly and thoroughly (inferior ti) not a failure to be assertive or organized (inferior te). She's ni-se, not se-ni; her inner ideas are more important to her than the sense perception of the physical world. She's a neurotic J, not a laid-back P, although she tries to project p-ness (couldn't resist).
    First of all I must ask you to re-read about Fi and then read on counterphobic e6s (or watch some videos of tv/movie characters whom are accurately typed as counterphobic 6w7s) because she displays classic use of Fi-expressions combined with counterphobic 6w7 traits.

    I agree with the childish part but the rest I disagree on. Also her childishness is due to her Fi making her unbending and adamant with a mixture of counterphobic e6 headstrong nature along with Se live in the moment impulsiveness.

    Good point on her not reflecting on her emotions but that is not an exclusively Fi trait, most feelers do it too and believe it or not mos T types do it too. Probably not INTJs but on the few moments I empathize with INTJs and on the monologue conversations my INTJ 6w5 friend has when alone with me I realize that INTJs too do this. Also it is wrong of you to say that she doesn't reflect on her emotions because the show doesn't cover introspective brooding of anyone of the characters (except for that of Abed), she does seem to do it (especially when embarrassed) and from what I have noticed counterphobic 6w7s aren't very reflective on emotions.

    Egalitarian ideals doesn’t imply any type. Infact adamantly believing in it would suggest Fi especially if one doesn’t do so due to empathizing with others (she’s not empathizing with others in that regard) unlike an Fe dom would have if the Fe dom had egalitarian ideals.

    Suffering from a failure to think clearly is not a Ti inferior trait. The ENFJs I know are the most clear thinkers whose thinking is heavily influenced by their empathic Fe as they give into their Fe though their logic would tell them the other. Infact failure to think clearly is a classic FP trait. (No offense FPS.)

    The reason she doesn’t fail at being assertive is because she is a counterphobic 6w7 and you are quite mistaken about her being organized.

    ISFPs and ENFJs have Se and Ni as common traits therefore I was going to forgo that point of yours until I saw that you added that latter part: her inner ideas are more important to her than the sense perception of the physical world. Actually her ‘beliefs’ and ‘ideals’ are more important to her. And beliefs and ideals being important above anything else is a classic Fi dom trait.

    She’s neurotic yes. That would suggest she is an counterphobic 6w7 as maybe even more so than it being a counterphobic 6w7 triat. (sorry counterphobic 6w7s but I couldn’t resist ).

    Quote Originally Posted by Emotionalogic View Post
    Pierce is an introvert, incapable of socializing outside his close circle of friends. And he has trouble even getting along with even them, even though he really wants to be part of the group. He screams inferior fe. He's an introverted sensor, just listen to the terse way he speaks. And the way he participates in his weird cult is very tert-ni (a bit like Tom Cruise, another ISTP). He's pretty clam and collected, and he never lets on, which fits a ti - dom.
    You are probably right about his type.

    However inferior Fe would have made sense if he was 10 because ITPs (esp ISTPs) start developing their Fe skills during highschool/late teens and they tend to get a good hang of it during their late 20s though they tends to serve their dominant thinking function (Ti) more so than being entirely influenced or driven by it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Emotionalogic View Post
    I could see ENFJ for Annie, but I think ESFJ fits better. I see si, not se. She does appear more like an ENFJ later on though, when she lightens up a bit and takes on grander projects. She's still more of a nurturer than an idealist though. Compare the number of conversations she's had about abstract concepts with the number of conversations she's had about logistics. And compare her to Britta.
    Well even I thought she was an esfj initially and only realized later that she is an enfj on the point you made on her: 'taking grander projects and lightening up' and I see quite a lot of idealism in her more so than in Britta. You do make a good point about her not making almost no conversations at all on abstract concepts. However the ENFJ females I know (mind you I have correctly guessed their types and have given tests to confirm them before telling them what type they will get to impress them) aren't very abstract in their conversations. However they do tend to become keen on such conversations when one initiates them. Yes she isn't interested in Abed's abstract thoughts but a part of the series in others thinking Abed's abstract moments childlike and ignoring them.

    But yes I don't have much valid points (atleast for now) to prove my point nor change your mind about Annie's typing.

    Edit -

    You are probably right about Abed but Troy you are definitely wrong and I'll get to Troy and Abed (as to what I agree with you) later.

  4. #54
    Senior Member Emotionalogic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riva View Post
    As promised here goes:



    First of all I must ask you to re-read about Fi and then read on counterphobic e6s (or watch some videos of tv/movie characters whom are accurately typed as counterphobic 6w7s) because she displays classic use of Fi-expressions combined with counterphobic 6w7 traits.
    Fine, but only if you agree to reread my original post. Frankly, you seem to have misunderstood it at many points, resulting in an incoherent argument.


    Quote Originally Posted by Riva View Post
    I agree with the childish part but the rest I disagree on. Also her childishness is due to her Fi making her unbending and adamant with a mixture of counterphobic e6 headstrong nature along with Se live in the moment impulsiveness.
    You misunderstand my point. I'm not saying she's childish (although she is), I'm saying her use of se is childish, not proficient enough to be the auxiliary function in someone her age. She lives in the moment like all Se users, but she's still clumsy and occasionally blind to things going on right in front of her eyes. Se works as her tertiary function, the use of which is typically childish.

    Quote Originally Posted by Riva View Post
    Good point on her not reflecting on her emotions but that is not an exclusively Fi trait, most feelers do it too and believe it or not mos T types do it too. Probably not INTJs but on the few moments I empathize with INTJs and on the monologue conversations my INTJ 6w5 friend has when alone with me I realize that INTJs too do this. Also it is wrong of you to say that she doesn't reflect on her emotions because the show doesn't cover introspective brooding of anyone of the characters (except for that of Abed), she does seem to do it (especially when embarrassed) and from what I have noticed counterphobic 6w7s aren't very reflective on emotions.

    Egalitarian ideals doesn’t imply any type. Infact adamantly believing in it would suggest Fi especially if one doesn’t do so due to empathizing with others (she’s not empathizing with others in that regard) unlike an Fe dom would have if the Fe dom had egalitarian ideals.
    No, reflecting on one's emotions is not an exclusively fi trait (when did I say it was?). But fi doms always do it, just like ti doms reflect on their logical systems of thought, ni doms reflect on their ideas, and si doms reflect on their experiences. Britta never reflects on her own emotions, nor does she seem to value them as much as other people's emotions (fe) or her ideas about the world (ni). Britta, being an extrovert, is fundamentally not a reflective person, but when she does reflect, it's always on other people's emotions. Hence the amateur therapist gig. And egalitarian ideals actually are a fe thing. fe types see everyone as fundamentally the same, whereas fi types see everyone as fundamentally unique. Hence fe types will be the ones advocating for equality, while fi types will advocate for the interests of someone (or some specific group of people) that they sympathize with, or for blanket individualism. Note that, in both these cases for fi types, an ordering of rank among people is implied (te). Britta's ideals are pretty clearly fe ones.
    Quote Originally Posted by Riva View Post
    Suffering from a failure to think clearly is not a Ti inferior trait. The ENFJs I know are the most clear thinkers whose thinking is heavily influenced by their empathic Fe as they give into their Fe though their logic would tell them the other. Infact failure to think clearly is a classic FP trait. (No offense FPS.)
    I suggest you review ti. ENFJs may be clear thinkers in some ways (I.E. when thinking about the external emotional environment) but unless they're very well developed their inferior ti makes it hard for them to stop and think about the logicality of what they're thinking or saying.
    Quote Originally Posted by Riva View Post
    The reason she doesn’t fail at being assertive is because she is a counterphobic 6w7 and you are quite mistaken about her being organized.
    OK, you need to stop invoking the enneagram to explain why she's nothing like the MBTI type you're giving her. And while she's not very organized, her's is a failure to organize her thinking (inferior ti) rather than a failure to organize her external environment, which she consistently tries to do, to bring it into emotional harmony (think of the episode where she helps Troy and Abed come to grips which Troy moving away, or all the times she tries to make everyone as passionate as she is about some cause. She often fails, just because she's not a very effective person, but she's too focused on it for extroverted judging to be her inferior function. ISFPs just want to live in accordance with their emotions. Britta is actually very hypocritical, but she does want everyone on her team (dominant fe).


    Quote Originally Posted by Riva View Post
    ISFPs and ENFJs have Se and Ni as common traits therefore I was going to forgo that point of yours until I saw that you added that latter part: her inner ideas are more important to her than the sense perception of the physical world. Actually her ‘beliefs’ and ‘ideals’ are more important to her. And beliefs and ideals being important above anything else is a classic Fi dom trait.
    Yes, ideals are a fi thing, being judgments, Beliefs, on the other hand, are a ni thing, being perceptions. Britta doesn't really care about her ideals (which is why she's so hyocritical). When you think about it, she doesn't really think about whether something is in line with her ideals, she just offers some unusual perception (cosmetics companies are degrading to women, for example), then tries to get everyone on board with it. The judgement is an externalized, social process. A fi user, and especially an ISFP, who tend to define themselves through their image, would just stop using cosmetics, which she doesn't do. She wants everyone to share her beliefs, and then to get on her team and help advocate for them. That's fe and ni. And yes, her ideas are more important to her than the external physical world. Compare, in contrast to Annie, the number of conversations she's had about abstract concepts with the number she's had about the immediate reality.

    I'm glad you agree about Pierce.


    Quote Originally Posted by Riva View Post
    Well even I thought she was an esfj initially and only realized later that she is an enfj on the point you made on her: 'taking grander projects and lightening up' and I see quite a lot of idealism in her more so than in Britta. You do make a good point about her not making almost no conversations at all on abstract concepts. However the ENFJ females I know (mind you I have correctly guessed their types and have given tests to confirm them before telling them what type they will get to impress them) aren't very abstract in their conversations. However they do tend to become keen on such conversations when one initiates them. Yes she isn't interested in Abed's abstract thoughts but a part of the series in others thinking Abed's abstract moments childlike and ignoring them.

    But yes I don't have much valid points (atleast for now) to prove my point nor change your mind about Annie's typing.

    Edit -

    You are probably right about Abed but Troy you are definitely wrong and I'll get to Troy and Abed (as to what I agree with you) later.
    If the ENFJs you know aren't very abstract in their conversations, then you've mistyped them. Not only would they be inclined towards such conversations but, as extroverts and particularly as EXXJ fe dom extroverts, they would be happy to initiate them. Annie's lightening up and taking on grander projects is a natural consequence of her maturing, not an indication of ni-aux. She's still logistics-oriented. And it's not like her projects are so grand. Name one "big idea" she's had. And how can you ignore all the si oozing out of her?

    I'm glad you agree about Abed.

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