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  1. #31
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    The personality of Sherlock Holmes in the movie is basically an amalgamation of (1) the literary character, (2) Robert Downey Jr., and (3) the Pikey from Snatch (Holmes needed to be sufficiently swashbucklified to provide the necessary Guy Ritchie appeal.) As such, it is useless to talk about either the original character OR Robert Downey Jr. as measures, by themselves, of the film-Holmes' type. Taken all together, I found the film-Holmes to be quite extraverted. I'd say ENTP or ENTJ (the J just because he was lost without work. Wouldn't a P be most at home without work?) I could not see an INTP behaving as he did, and I think any functional analyses used to make him INTP are simply cases of fitting the interpretation to a desired end (namely, the desire that he be INTP because he is 'cool'.)
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

  2. #32
    Babylon Candle Venom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    The personality of Sherlock Holmes in the movie is basically an amalgamation of (1) the literary character, (2) Robert Downey Jr., and (3) the Pikey from Snatch (Holmes needed to be sufficiently swashbucklified to provide the necessary Guy Ritchie appeal.) As such, it is useless to talk about either the original character OR Robert Downey Jr. as measures, by themselves, of the film-Holmes' type. Taken all together, I found the film-Holmes to be quite extraverted. I'd say ENTP or ENTJ (the J just because he was lost without work. Wouldn't a P be most at home without work?) I could not see an INTP behaving as he did, and I think any functional analyses used to make him INTP are simply cases of fitting the interpretation to a desired end (namely, the desire that he be INTP because he is 'cool'.)
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    Quote Originally Posted by incubustribute View Post
    Functional analysis is the capstone of MBTI. Without Jung's functions you have overly generalized categorizations that lump people into vague 4 letter categories. I think we're going to have to agree to disagree here. Introverts will behave this way if it suits their needs. Regardless of how you define cognitive processes, you have to agree that everyone uses multiple faculties of some sort to deal with internal processes and external judgments. If you accept that, I don't see what's so hard to understand about my assertion that extroverted processes are much more easily identifiable in a movie. To get the introverted ones, you have to have inner dialogue, sort of like J.D. in Scrubs. You actually get that during the fight scenes a little bit - he goes through a planned, structured sequence of fighting maneuvers (Ti). But mostly it's not as obvious. You've got to look at why he does the things he does, not just what specifically he does.
    1. without jung's functions we have overgeneralized categories? I think with or without functions we are stuck with generalizations .

    2. the problem with analyzing people's functions without actually being them is that no function exists in a vacuum. In reality functions are always being mixed together in ways that to the outsider, are easily confusable. The interaction-styles+temperament method appears MUCH more reliable:

    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...your-type.html

    A great example of why interaction-styles+temperament is far superior when typing someone other than yourself is the ESTJ vs ENFJ. Based on interaction styles, the ONLY difference between the two types is that ESTJ is concrete, while the ENFJ is abstract.
    --They are both affiliative (over pragmatic)
    --They are both directing (over informing)
    --They are both initiating (over responding)
    --They are both In-Charge team styles
    the ONLY difference is abstract vs concrete. Using functional analysis, think how hard it would be to get either of these types differentiated when their interactions are so similar? I strongly recommend you take some time to think over the interaction styles method of typing, and how much easier it is to use reliably than peeking inside people's heads .

    3. For the record, I am not totally poo pooing functional analysis. I think it works great when you yourself analyse your own motivations like these two pages of Lenore Thompson:

    Not Cognitive Processes

    Philosophical Exegesis

  3. #33
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    Assuming the movie version of Holmes in an INT, can someone please explain to me why he'd be a P rather than a J?

  4. #34
    Senior Member evilrobot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    The literary Holmes is supposed to be an INTJ. That's not just my personal opinion.

    I’m inclined to agree after re-reading a few of the stories. Holmes is an eccentric genius: an NT temperament and surely a 5/introvert. INTP would be the next choice, bringing to mind the enigmatic L from the Death Note series, who was partly fashioned after Holmes (I assume). But INTJ seems to fit better.
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    If things are not what they seem, and we are forever reminded that this is the case—then it must also be observed that enough of us ignore this truth to keep the world from collapsing. –Thomas Ligotti, The Mystics of Muelenberg

  5. #35
    Senior Member Uytuun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tinkerbell View Post
    Personally speaking
    homes = ENTP
    Watson = INTJ

    thats how I would see it in the books and previous films... Watson was more E in this version of Homes.
    I don't know about the books, but Watson in Ritchie's film is no NTJ. An NTJ would clash with Holmes, not defer to him. They make for better villains than they do sidekicks.

  6. #36
    Senior Member Moiety's Avatar
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    Holmes - INTP

    Watson - INTJ

    Irene - ENTP


    Blackcat : Watson is an ESFP?

  7. #37
    Controlled Mischief StephMC's Avatar
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    Wow, I was almost positive on these types, and thought there would be more agreement.

    Well, Holmes is definitely an NTP. Ne + Ti, for sure. I would lean towards ENTP, though... He reminded me more of the ENTPs I know than the INTPs I know.

    Watson is an ISxJ. I would lean towards ISTJ.

    This might be my desperation to find a female ISTP in movies/tv, but I thought Irene was an ISTP :X... Possibly an ESTP. She seemed to use Se rather than Ne.
    I have an inner monologue that sounds strikingly similar to something off Animal Planet.

  8. #38
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    half way through watching it i thought for sure he had to be a intp. the voluntary isolation, the restaurant scene, his 'depravity' yet apparent lack of sex life, his obsession with adler..
    however, someone was saying earlier that there's no way an intp would be leaping around, brawling with people, but i can tell u, i'm living proof that an intp can most definately engage in fights and other 'adventurous' activities like leaping around a city.. mostly getting into fights.. he doesnt do this because he's a go go action guy, he does it because it interests him. the thought of beating another man to a pulp in the most efficient way possible excites him. the actual beating itself just doesnt do much for him, other than validate his deduction.
    i might add that in a real confrontational situation, plotting out your every strike in your head before hand, reeaally doesn't work... but it was cool in the movie.

    as for the moments of extraversion, its entirely possible for an introvert, even an extreme intovert, to appear, even feel ultra confident, in front of groups of people. me, for example - when i'm drunk or arguing about something i believe in. from what i gather, Holmes was into his cocaine (which has a somewhat lifting effect) and he was always knew he was right.

    there i've done it - related an awesome fictional character to myself in an almost coherant way. you could say it was.. elementary, my dear personality type forum...

  9. #39
    Ruler of the Stars Asterion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tinkerbell View Post
    CJ I don't buy this..... not a bit, he is so obviously and NT, screamingly so.... N don't ignore detail where is it relevant to what they are doing, they obess about it, its a different type of detail. I do statistics and research, I have to be detailed about a fair bit of what I do... I'm a fully top of the scale N type... but I still know the detail, remember it, find it again..... what I don't do is administration, tidiness etc...

    S = use concrete language
    N = use abstract language

    Homes is oober abstract, things into the neuance of problems etc....


    The guys is fiction to this is all conjecture, but never in a million years would I consider him an S type in any of the films etc....
    Intuitives will often read deeper into the information they gather, rather than looking at the surface information in depth. That's what holmes was doing, reading motive... which is tertiary Fe business I think.

    Quote Originally Posted by Oedipa_Maas View Post
    Agreed.

    In this latest movie, he seemed more INTP than ENTP to me.

    An (over)confident INTP.
    Usually, when you have to add an exeption to a typing, you know that you're overthinking it, or not completely within the boundaries. In the movie, Holmes thought his ideas up on the spot. I can see how he could be an INTP, but he fits ENTP better... XNTPs are pretty similar anyway. As to the person who said he was a five... what the hell kind of 5 would experiment on their dog?
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  10. #40
    Controlled Mischief StephMC's Avatar
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    ^ Agreed. I feel like INTPs theorize in their heads first (Ti), THEN use Ne to gather information. To me, it looked like Holmes was always gathering information through Ne and then using Ti to piece it together. I feel like the fight scene where he imagined the fight before he completed it was a really good example of an overractive Ne with Ti as a support
    I have an inner monologue that sounds strikingly similar to something off Animal Planet.

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