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  1. #21
    Senior Member tinkerbell's Avatar
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    He says something like, "There is absolutely nothing of interest out there for me at all." Clearly introverted.

    Nothing to do with E/I type and very much NT type... I am often in that mind set myself. I have no idea how you translate that into Introversion at all.

  2. #22
    Senior Member incubustribute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tinkerbell View Post
    He says something like, "There is absolutely nothing of interest out there for me at all." Clearly introverted.

    Nothing to do with E/I type and very much NT type... I am often in that mind set myself. I have no idea how you translate that into Introversion at all.
    Perhaps I should have been more specific. The idea of not needing anything in the outside world is highly indicative of a Ji function (introverted judging). In this case it is Ti we're looking at. Ti needs no external validation for its value system - it is only concerned with the self, as all introverted functions are. It needs an extroverted perceptive faculty to validate the judgments. This could be either Ne or Se. When Sherlock claims he has no interest in the outside world at that moment he is showcasing his Ti - all he wants is a case to solve, a puzzle to complete. When I say he is introverted I only mean that insofar as his main cognitive role is clearly introverted thinking (Ti). He may seem extroverted if you watch the movie at surface value, because you're listening to him talking, watching him in action, and physically seeing his role. You cannot directly observe an introverted role in action, you need to look at the motivations (what he's most concerned with in general) throughout the movie. ENTP would require that he has inferior sensing abilities, which is very obviously not true. I'll give you that he seems extroverted throughout a good bit of the film, but you have to look into his cognitive processes to get a more complete view of what's going on.

    Also I spied another Holmes thread in the popular culture section, is there any way we can merge the two? I searched for one like I always do before I made it, so I think mine was up first, although the other one appears chronologically before mine.

  3. #23
    Senior Member Killjoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by incubustribute View Post
    Well, ENTP is something I considered as well, but I think some of you are making the mistake of assuming an outgoing, clever, and funny personality means extroversion. Pay close attention to his motives throughout the movie. Everything he exists for is solving the mystery...unlocking the clues and processing and exploring the data to construct a logical framework. His entire motivations in the movie are based on Ti. Remember the scene near the beginning where he's been sitting in that dark room for two weeks going crazy because he doesn't have a case to solve. He says something like, "There is absolutely nothing of interest out there for me at all." Clearly introverted. An ENTP would be much more concerned with simply endlessly exploring ideas to ever be as good as Sherlock at dissecting the data and doing something with it. Ne serves Ti's ends in this movie, not the other way around. As for ISTP, this is the most likely alternative, but I believe his sensing function is introverted. When he looks at a crime scene he never writes anything down, he internalizes it and recalls it later for Ne's end of exploration. Ne's exploration then serves Ti's end for solving the puzzle and you have a brilliant detective. As for secondary Se...consider that when he perceives something outwardly (Pe) he is quickly running through endless possibilities in his mind (he even vocalizes these sometimes when he "explains" his methods). It's all about exploration, experimentation, and then this gets processed and structured by Ti. The process by which he evaluates external data is a clear Ne/Si combination. Lastly, if you pay attention, inferior Fe is very evident throughout the film, which would seem to disqualify ENTP.
    Agreed.

    In this latest movie, he seemed more INTP than ENTP to me.

    An (over)confident INTP.

  4. #24
    Babylon Candle Venom's Avatar
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    this is reaching levels of insanity:

    everyone think back to every INTP you've ever known, and all of your math professors (). you REALLY think *those people* are going to be running around leaping from buildings, fighting people like its no big deal, calmly thinking on their feet as they get the person away from the band saw, suavely dressing and entertaining the prison mob like a stand up commedian?

    You REALLY think that a "Behind The Scenes" INTP is more likely to do all of that than a "Get Things Going" ENTP?????

  5. #25
    Senior Member incubustribute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Babylon Candle View Post
    this is reaching levels of insanity:

    everyone think back to every INTP you've ever known, and all of your math professors (). you REALLY think *those people* are going to be running around leaping from buildings, fighting people like its no big deal, calmly thinking on their feet as they get the person away from the band saw, suavely dressing and entertaining the prison mob like a stand up commedian?

    You REALLY think that a "Behind The Scenes" INTP is more likely to do all of that than a "Get Things Going" ENTP?????
    ...

    care to offer more broad generalizations and stereotypes? I've tried to show with functional analysis why INTP makes sense, but perhaps you'd like to make some specific observations from the movie. I'd be willing to listen to anything that shows why INTP's functions don't work, but I don't think you'll find much.

  6. #26
    Senior Member tinkerbell's Avatar
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    I personally think functional analysis is an overlay on MBTI that doens't work/is really badly used...... but I know that this is a an unpopulare opinion around here....

    BC has a a really strong point, Inroverts dont' behave like that

  7. #27
    Senior Member incubustribute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tinkerbell View Post
    I personally think functional analysis is an overlay on MBTI that doens't work/is really badly used...... but I know that this is a an unpopulare opinion around here....

    BC has a a really strong point, Inroverts dont' behave like that
    Functional analysis is the capstone of MBTI. Without Jung's functions you have overly generalized categorizations that lump people into vague 4 letter categories. I think we're going to have to agree to disagree here. Introverts will behave this way if it suits their needs. Regardless of how you define cognitive processes, you have to agree that everyone uses multiple faculties of some sort to deal with internal processes and external judgments. If you accept that, I don't see what's so hard to understand about my assertion that extroverted processes are much more easily identifiable in a movie. To get the introverted ones, you have to have inner dialogue, sort of like J.D. in Scrubs. You actually get that during the fight scenes a little bit - he goes through a planned, structured sequence of fighting maneuvers (Ti). But mostly it's not as obvious. You've got to look at why he does the things he does, not just what specifically he does.

  8. #28
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tinkerbell View Post
    I personally think functional analysis is an overlay on MBTI that doens't work/is really badly used
    You also think astrology has demonstrable validity. Your point?
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by CJ99 View Post
    If you want to see the arguements go see the Mr Holmes thread as this has been discussed at length.

    But what sort of ENTP pays attention to every little detail they notice? There a thread up now about how bad ENTPs are at rememberingand noticing details. Yet that is holmes strength!
    Hi. I never said he was ENTP. The literary Holmes is supposed to be an INTJ. That's not just my personal opinion.

    Also, I took an entire class on Mystery and Detective fiction this past semester and made an A. I've made it my business to reflect upon Sherlock's character, and how he's another (slightly less dark) manifestation of Edgar Allan Poe's Dupin character.

    I would definitely not make an argument for ENTP under any circumstance, but I haven't seen the movie, and I know how movies can completely and utterly change from the original literary source.

  10. #30
    Senior Member Bubbleboy's Avatar
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    Downey Jr. (almost) always plays INTP characters. I haven't seen the movie, but doesn't he behave like "himself" in it?
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