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  1. #11
    Babylon Candle Venom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    I didn't see it yet but I have a hard time seeing how Robert Downey, Jr.+Sherlock Holmes could be anything but an NTP. (In this case INTP.)




    I've never read the books, but what's ISTP about him?
    Quote Originally Posted by incubustribute View Post
    This is based on the movie with Robert Downey Jr. I am already very very sure of Sherlock as INTP, but I'm curious as to what you all think, and I'd like to narrow down some of the other characters as well.

    My initial read for Watson is ESTJ, but perhaps ISTJ.

    Irene: ENTP
    Lord Blackwood: ENTJ
    Lestrade: ESTJ

    These three are just guesses.
    Quote Originally Posted by CJ99 View Post
    I think downey just made holmes appear more ENTP just like did with iron man.

    Actually from the books its clear that homles is an ISTP.

    As to Watson i'm unsure.
    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    The literary Holmes is supposedly INTJ, although I also wouldn't completely negate INTP. I don't know about the movie version. In the original stories he is definitely not an extrovert.
    Quote Originally Posted by evilrobot View Post
    Interesting, Holmes as an ENTP (same type as Downey's Iron Man), which most of you seem to agree on. Makes me want to see the movie.

    The literary version and older movie versions are STJs. His brother Mycroft is possibly an INTP.

    I think some of you are making the mistake of projecting the books onto the movie. The movie character, is CLEARLY an E.

    I think ENTP is settled for Holmes (in the movie version).
    I also agree with JJ that Watson seemed ISFJ. Strong, dependable, responding, informing, affiliative, structure over motive, niether overly sensate or intuitive.

    The girl was probably the hardest person to type. I could see her as JJ's twin (ENTJ ). Though sometimes STP crossed my mind (only briefly).

  2. #12
    Senior Member evilrobot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Babylon Candle View Post

    I think ENTP is settled for Holmes (in the movie version).

    Do you think they drew the character that way to fit Downey?
    X___________________________________

    If things are not what they seem, and we are forever reminded that this is the case—then it must also be observed that enough of us ignore this truth to keep the world from collapsing. –Thomas Ligotti, The Mystics of Muelenberg

  3. #13
    Senior Member tinkerbell's Avatar
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    Homes is pretty E in most films, even in the young Homes films...

    It's a thought for CJ.... why do you think he is an I type in the book? He discusses with individuals what they were up too, and with Watson, and then concludes by making leaps in judgement which ahs happened in his head....

    My view of an E type would be that type of behaviour is precisely what they do. An I type to me would actually reading around/look at less human evidence and then share their thinking....

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by CJ99 View Post
    Extreme attention to details. Most of his cases are solved based on details that don't fit it with the overall case. Ti + Ni. He analyses the case and sees the patterns but most importantly the patterns are always secondary to the details and be always changes patterns to details. He is also very physical and in almost every case likes to get on the seen of the crime and examine everything himself.

    Also constantly criticises his brother Mycroft (who is a sort of anyalist for MI6 and an INT) for never - despite being able to many times make a correct guess at the answer to cases holmes takes to him - getting out and actually checking his theories and finding actual answers.

    In the books its all in the details. Holmes is always thinking about the details and all the significant things he can find out from them.

    What kind of ISTP lives alone in a room with musty old books full of information on every single thing he knows, and rejects any and all relationships with women? Holmes' defining features in the original stories are that he's weirdly intellectual, doesn't blend well into polite society, has bizarre ingenious ideas which help him to solve the cases - including playing odd characters as you said - and prizes himself on not only his bachelorhood, but his complete resistance to any and all sexual contact. He snorts cocaine and sits alone and plays the violin. He's high strung and nervous. Sure, he does footwork on the cases, but all real detectives have to do that - it's called collecting clues. Doesn't make him an SP.

  5. #15
    Is Willard in Footloose!! CJ99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tinkerbell View Post
    Homes is pretty E in most films, even in the young Homes films...

    It's a thought for CJ.... why do you think he is an I type in the book? He discusses with individuals what they were up too, and with Watson, and then concludes by making leaps in judgement which ahs happened in his head....

    My view of an E type would be that type of behaviour is precisely what they do. An I type to me would actually reading around/look at less human evidence and then share their thinking....
    Because in the book (and to an extent this is shown in the film but not much) everything holmes does is to feed his Ti. In the books he is talking to everyone and running all over the place to feed his Ti. Its also not uncommon for him to forget everyone around him (including watson at times) and become obsessed with his thought prossess. The ah-ha moments don't happen as much in the books if i rememeber corectly.

    Also another point to make is that holmes is a definate S. He is obsessed with the details to an extent that no N could possibly every.

    Also a major part of the film was the emphasis on the relationship between Holmes and Watson. In the books Holmes doesn't have any other friends other than Watson and if its not directly related to a case generally prefers to avoid all people other than Watson.
    "I'd never die for my beliefs, I might be wrong"

    "Is it not enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe there are fairys at the bottom of it too"

    "Intelligence is being able to hold too opposing views in the mind at the one time without going crazy" - Now all I need to figure out is if I'm intelligent or crazy!

  6. #16
    Is Willard in Footloose!! CJ99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    What kind of ISTP lives alone in a room with musty old books full of information on every single thing he knows, and rejects any and all relationships with women? Holmes' defining features in the original stories are that he's weirdly intellectual, doesn't blend well into polite society, has bizarre ingenious ideas which help him to solve the cases - including playing odd characters as you said - and prizes himself on not only his bachelorhood, but his complete resistance to any and all sexual contact. He snorts cocaine and sits alone and plays the violin. He's high strung and nervous. Sure, he does footwork on the cases, but all real detectives have to do that - it's called collecting clues. Doesn't make him an SP.
    If you want to see the arguements go see the Mr Holmes thread as this has been discussed at length.

    But what sort of ENTP pays attention to every little detail they notice? There a thread up now about how bad ENTPs are at rememberingand noticing details. Yet that is holmes strength!
    "I'd never die for my beliefs, I might be wrong"

    "Is it not enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe there are fairys at the bottom of it too"

    "Intelligence is being able to hold too opposing views in the mind at the one time without going crazy" - Now all I need to figure out is if I'm intelligent or crazy!

  7. #17
    Senior Member tinkerbell's Avatar
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    CJ I don't buy this..... not a bit, he is so obviously and NT, screamingly so.... N don't ignore detail where is it relevant to what they are doing, they obess about it, its a different type of detail. I do statistics and research, I have to be detailed about a fair bit of what I do... I'm a fully top of the scale N type... but I still know the detail, remember it, find it again..... what I don't do is administration, tidiness etc...

    S = use concrete language
    N = use abstract language

    Homes is oober abstract, things into the neuance of problems etc....


    The guys is fiction to this is all conjecture, but never in a million years would I consider him an S type in any of the films etc....

  8. #18
    Is Willard in Footloose!! CJ99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tinkerbell View Post
    CJ I don't buy this..... not a bit, he is so obviously and NT, screamingly so.... N don't ignore detail where is it relevant to what they are doing, they obess about it, its a different type of detail. I do statistics and research, I have to be detailed about a fair bit of what I do... I'm a fully top of the scale N type... but I still know the detail, remember it, find it again..... what I don't do is administration, tidiness etc...

    S = use concrete language
    N = use abstract language

    Homes is oober abstract, things into the neuance of problems etc....


    The guys is fiction to this is all conjecture, but never in a million years would I consider him an S type in any of the films etc....
    Yeah in the film downey Jr makes him an ENTP but in the book i still say ISTP go read the thread Mr Holmes theres loads of good arguments there.
    "I'd never die for my beliefs, I might be wrong"

    "Is it not enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe there are fairys at the bottom of it too"

    "Intelligence is being able to hold too opposing views in the mind at the one time without going crazy" - Now all I need to figure out is if I'm intelligent or crazy!

  9. #19
    Senior Member tinkerbell's Avatar
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    it's not this film that causes me to think ENTP....

    The NT comes from anything done on Holmes...S types are typically very concrete

    Enough I've got to get on with stuff

  10. #20
    Senior Member incubustribute's Avatar
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    Well, ENTP is something I considered as well, but I think some of you are making the mistake of assuming an outgoing, clever, and funny personality means extroversion. Pay close attention to his motives throughout the movie. Everything he exists for is solving the mystery...unlocking the clues and processing and exploring the data to construct a logical framework. His entire motivations in the movie are based on Ti. Remember the scene near the beginning where he's been sitting in that dark room for two weeks going crazy because he doesn't have a case to solve. He says something like, "There is absolutely nothing of interest out there for me at all." Clearly introverted. An ENTP would be much more concerned with simply endlessly exploring ideas to ever be as good as Sherlock at dissecting the data and doing something with it. Ne serves Ti's ends in this movie, not the other way around. As for ISTP, this is the most likely alternative, but I believe his sensing function is introverted. When he looks at a crime scene he never writes anything down, he internalizes it and recalls it later for Ne's end of exploration. Ne's exploration then serves Ti's end for solving the puzzle and you have a brilliant detective. As for secondary Se...consider that when he perceives something outwardly (Pe) he is quickly running through endless possibilities in his mind (he even vocalizes these sometimes when he "explains" his methods). It's all about exploration, experimentation, and then this gets processed and structured by Ti. The process by which he evaluates external data is a clear Ne/Si combination. Lastly, if you pay attention, inferior Fe is very evident throughout the film, which would seem to disqualify ENTP.

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