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  1. #31
    Senior Member Space_Oddity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sol_ View Post
    Many disagreement with INFP version for Hilton was from people thinking their own type is INFP. It's udnerstandable that people not wish that SUCH BAD girl have the same type as them.
    Wrong I admit I kind of like Paris Hilton. She is so individualistic and she so doesn't care what people think of her that it's almost admirable. I find her really entertaining, but there's no way in the world she's an INFP. NF doesn't make any sense. SP + ST does. By the way, I see you're orienting mainly by your feeling, well - Paris Hilton feels to me exactly like an ISTP friend of mine who I originally thought to be an ENTP. They have the same lifestyle, opinions, and they even look similar.
    Her head hung down
    Gazed at earth, finally keen,
    As the rabbit at the stoat,
    Till the earth was sky,
    Sky that was green,
    And brown clouds passed
    Like chestnut leaves along the ground.

    - SUSAN ANN AND IMMORTALITY, T. E. Hulme

  2. #32
    Senior Member Heart&Brain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sol_ View Post
    It's not impossible. I know one doctor of technical sciences, - the head of department in the university, - ESFP. A little of: persistence + help of other people + luck and money = many men with a minimal talant can become a "doctorate in quantum chemistry".
    Well, neither of us really know the inner cognitive preferences of Angela Merkel so nothing is impossible. But given what I do know, some things seem more improbable than others. What things do you know about her that makes it probable that she's F, rather than T?


    You should try to compare her with ESTPs such as: Carmen Electra, Lucy Lawless, Sharon Stone, ... she gives other impression in emotions.
    I suppose you are now talking Goldberg?
    The names you mention mean pretty faces to me and not much more. I've no knowledge of their cognitive processing or if they'll go over in history for some original, long term, non-staged accomplishments.

    Back to Goldberg: If she was ESFP her feeling function would be Fi, thus introverted, ethical intensity rather than hands-on display and organisation of feeling. Dunno, does that really fit her? Meh. I'd say no, she's too tom-boy funny. Anyway, don't really care, I just wanted to find one of each type.

    Can anybody propose a good shot for a historically remarkable female ESTP politician / writer / engineer / scientist / painter / inventor / sailor / adventurer.... whatever (just no pop, please).


    Does anybody dare to guess the type of Eleanor Roosevelt?

    Oh, maybe Frida Kahlo was really not an I, but an ESTP? (She was into boxing as a kid. A dom-Se disabled and in pain - what a tragedy )

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heart&Brain View Post
    given what I do know, some things seem more improbable than others.
    I just wanted to explain that argument about education without taking in account many other things is rather poor. If she was a great chemist - that would be much more revealing.

    What things do you know about her that makes it probable that she's F, rather than T?
    Just feel her so. I use the so called image method, - analyse intuitive impressions from a non-verbal behavior of a man.

    Back to Goldberg: If she was ESFP her feeling function would be Fi, thus introverted, ethical intensity rather than hands-on display and organisation of feeling. Dunno, does that really fit her? Meh. I'd say no, she's too tom-boy funny.
    The main difference between Fi and Fe - Fi analyses subjective feelings to an object (peronal sympathy/antipathy), while Fe - gives ethical evaluation of an object itself (as it is for all people in a society, for example), it's not about expression of feelings. "ethical intensity rather than hands-on display" is more a difference between intoverted and extraverted F person. I recommend you to read types descriptions at socionics sites, they are more accurate.

    Can anybody propose a good shot for a historically remarkable female ESTP politician / writer / engineer / scientist / painter / inventor / sailor / adventurer.... whatever (just no pop, please).
    Condoleezza Rice - politician
    Marina Popovich - pilot
    Valentina Matviyenko - politician

    Frida Kahlo was really not an I, but an ESTP?
    ISTJ, maybe (again, recommend to read description of type not at MB, where jungian model was perverted)

  4. #34
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sol_ View Post
    It's an ordinary reaction when versions of type differ.

    It's my versions based on image method.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sol_ View Post
    Idolization of will power, for example. The problem is that information about her in mass media is very limited and stereotyped as "dirty barbie girl".

    P. S. I use interpretation of types based on jungian model, not on wrong MB-model. I recommend to read intoverted types descriptions in socionics texts.

    You haven't given any argument that actually analyzes Paris Hilton's behavior/quotes to support she is INFP. "Idolizing will power" could be many types.

    I think many of us here are very familiar with Jung's theory, including myself. This isn't a Socionics forum either, and I'd argue MBTI is more faithful to Jung anyway.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

  5. #35
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Hey, what about Camille Claudel? I know she has the historical reputation of having been Rodin's bitch, but I personally like her Clotho better than almost all of Rodin's work (except his Eve.)
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    You haven't given any argument that actually analyzes Paris Hilton's behavior/quotes to support she is INFP.
    I have just answered a question: "What are her deeply held values, for one?" The trait I've said is a "deeply held value" for INFP and INTP types, more to say this kind of idolization is most evident at these types.

    MBTI is more faithful to Jung anyway.
    MBT use VERY different model of functions for introverted types than was used by Jung. If you read Jung's book, you know it.

  7. #37
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alexx View Post
    Gwen Stefani is most def. an ENFP.
    Why do you think so? I once saw her helping the singers on American Idol and she was very very different than she was on stage - quiet, unassuming. When she goes on stage, it is like you are flipping a performer switch.

  8. #38
    Senior Member InfiniteIntrigue's Avatar
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    So that's why I hate Oprah.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    "Fools who wear their hearts proudly on their sleeves,
    who cannot control their emotions, who wallow in sad
    memories and allow themselves to be provoked this
    easily -- weak people, in other words -- they stand no chance."
    -Severus Snape

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander29 View Post
    Why do you think so? I once saw her helping the singers on American Idol and she was very very different than she was on stage - quiet, unassuming. When she goes on stage, it is like you are flipping a performer switch.
    She's an SFP, not NFP. Would not surprise me if she were ISFP...

    YouTube - Gwen Stefani Interview 1996

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heart&Brain View Post
    Great idea! Difficult guesswork too!
    But I would like to up the challenge and find some accomplished women who are NOT necessarily from the world of pop and paparazzi.
    (Also, there IS a world outside America, just saying...)

    NFs:
    ENFP: Agatha Christie
    INFP: Sylvia Plath
    ENFJ: Gro Harlem Brundtland
    INFJ: Hannah Arendt

    NTs:
    ENTP: Rosa Luxembourg
    INTP: Marie Curie
    INTJ: Queen Elizabeth I
    ENTJ: Angela Merckel

    SJs:
    ISFJ: Princess Diana
    ESFJ: Oprah Winfrey
    ISTJ: Mother Theresa
    ESTJ: Winnie Mandela

    SPs:
    ESFP: Mata Hari
    ISFP: Louise Bourgeois
    ESTP: Whoopie Goldberg
    ISTP: Frida Kahlo
    So unfamiliar with so many. But some quick corrections: Shy Di was an ISFP, Oprah is an ENFJ, Plath was an INFJ...and Goldberg is not an ESTP, although I am not a fan, and therefore...unfamiliar with her...

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