• You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to additional post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), view blogs, respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, so please join our community today! Just click here to register. You should turn your Ad Blocker off for this site or certain features may not work properly. If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us by clicking here.

Can we all agree on a Personality Type for Oscar Wilde?

sofmarhof

New member
Joined
Apr 30, 2009
Messages
327
MBTI Type
INTP
The main thing that rules out an NT for me, though, is again the fact that Wilde was so comfortable and skillfull in writing about deep emotions. The Happy Prince is one of the most "feeling" books I've ever read (easily comparable to INFP Andersen's fairy-tales, but more symbolic), and I would have yet to encounter another NT who would be able of this (they usually don't aspire to do this in the first place). INTJs and ENTPs do come close sometimes, but still, not quite. The whole point of The Happy Prince is to provoke strong emotions and subsequent change, which is an NF, specifically NFJ, area. I think that The Picture of Dorian Gray is primarily based on emotions as well. However, NTs primarily want to provoke thoughts, feeling tends to be secondary.

I don't find this convincing. He wrote his children's stories relatively late in his life, when most people have hopefully matured and developed their lesser functions. He wrote the stories specifically for his own children, so it makes sense he would communicate in a very emotional way.
 

BlueScreen

Fail 2.0
Joined
Nov 8, 2008
Messages
2,668
MBTI Type
YMCA
I don't think you can look as these things as simply as saying what someone writes matches a type. People often write to express what they would not normally say to society. They might document what they normally say, but the passion to re-express it is less. Writing is also something for a writer to hide behind, something that allows them to go beyond their normal self and take more risks. In Oscar Wilde's case this risk element seems obvious. He is making waves and enjoying it.

I think the style of the writing can say something though. The big question for me is, "is the Se in his writing real or is it mimicked?", because the focus on detail is undeniable. The other key themes seem to be people, society, irony, and life. This doesn't suggest F type, because we all know people are one of the most interesting topics. I was guessing ISTP because it has that observant nature to it. They notice all these amusing little nuances.

The other thing I felt like saying is that sometimes the people we find most interesting and insightful when they express themselves are not of our own type. Our own type can be too similar to be that intriguing.
 

OrangeAppled

Sugar Hiccup
Joined
Mar 20, 2009
Messages
7,626
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
4w5
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
I'm sold on ENFJ :D. I've had a hard time pinning him also, and ENTP just never seemed right. I actually thought INFJ originally, but I can't see introvert for him after all. His witty humor always feels similar to Morrissey (an INFJ), who is greatly influenced by Wilde.
 

Space_Oddity

New member
Joined
Oct 12, 2009
Messages
359
MBTI Type
CAT
Instinctual Variant
so
I don't think you can look as these things as simply as saying what someone writes matches a type.

This is something I have to fundamentally disagree about. I'm convinced that only writing, or art in general, can fully disclose the artist's type. It's because art is a product of one's imagination, an integral part of one's inner life, one of the few things that mirror our inner processes, which are the only thing that truly matters when typing people, imo. It's only books and movies alone that made me, for example, understand the difference between Ni and Ne. Also, when I was creating a novel with my INTP best friend, it was the time when the complementary nature of our Fi and Ti became the clearest; it was never so prominent in real life. These are just random examples, but it's something I confirm everyday. In typology, behaviour doesn't matter. Inner life matters. Imagination = the best product of inner life I can imagine.:newwink:

noigmn said:
People often write to express what they would not normally say to society. They might document what they normally say, but the passion to re-express it is less. Writing is also something for a writer to hide behind, something that allows them to go beyond their normal self and take more risks. In Oscar Wilde's case this risk element seems obvious. He is making waves and enjoying it.

Yes. In other words, it documents who we really are inside, not the face we show to society. Who we really are = our type.

noigmn said:
The big question for me is, "is the Se in his writing real or is it mimicked?", because the focus on detail is undeniable. The other key themes seem to be people, society, irony, and life. This doesn't suggest F type, because we all know people are one of the most interesting topics. I was guessing ISTP because it has that observant nature to it. They notice all these amusing little nuances.

Yeah, the bolded part is actually something I was also wondering about. Theoretically it's possible (he might do that to "fulfill the symbolism program" or something, even though I don't find it too likely), but I have to say that if he only mimicks Ni+Se he's doing it pretty damn well. I know I as a Ne user would never be able to do that, no matter how hard I tried.

"People, society, irony and life" - I don't know why an NFJ shouldn't be interested in these topics. Observing little nuances also doesn't necessarily exclude one type or another - ENFJs often really enjoy it as well, in my experience.

In fact, personally I don't see your ISTP typing as that much off, because an ENFJ and an ISTP share all the cognitive functions. But I don't see him as an introvert at all, his extraverted feeling was hardly inferior, and I see more Ni than Se in him - some of his works are way too symbolic.


noigmn said:
The other thing I felt like saying is that sometimes the people we find most interesting and insightful when they express themselves are not of our own type. Our own type can be too similar to be that intriguing.

I definitely agree on this one. There is a good reason why almost all my favourite writers are Ni users :cheese: (usually INFJs).
 

The_Liquid_Laser

Glowy Goopy Goodness
Joined
Jul 11, 2007
Messages
3,376
MBTI Type
ENTP
seriously? think harder. benjamin franklin. or any other myriad of entp inventors. people who create fucking crazy ideas.

I'm not even 100% convinced that Ben Franklin is ENTP. He's an NT for sure, but he might be one of the other NT's.

Oscar Wilde on the other hand is the embodiment of ENTP. If I had to sum up ENTP in one word it would be "clever". ENTP's really like to be clever. Oscar Wilde is extremely quotable, and all of his quotes are known for being clever. People don't quote him for saying things like "Give me liberty or give me death." Instead they quote him for things like "Democracy is simply the bludgeoning of the people by the people for the people."

I've seen several of his plays and they are all full of witty ENTP dialogue. The plot of "The Importance of Being Earnest" is really about a bunch of people who raised wasting time to an art form. (What is more ENTP than that?) Even when you look at say the emotional impact he gives through Dorian Grey, you have to realize that much of Dorian Grey's escapades mirror his own. He's writing from personal experience. (Wilde was known for being quite lecherous.)

Even on his deathbed he said, "Either that wallpaper goes, or I do." While lots of people are capable of making a joke on their deathbed, only an ENTP would actually choose to.
 

Space_Oddity

New member
Joined
Oct 12, 2009
Messages
359
MBTI Type
CAT
Instinctual Variant
so
I'm not even 100% convinced that Ben Franklin is ENTP. He's an NT for sure, but he might be one of the other NT's.

Oscar Wilde on the other hand is the embodiment of ENTP. If I had to sum up ENTP in one word it would be "clever". ENTP's really like to be clever. Oscar Wilde is extremely quotable, and all of his quotes are known for being clever. People don't quote him for saying things like "Give me liberty or give me death." Instead they quote him for things like "Democracy is simply the bludgeoning of the people by the people for the people."

I've seen several of his plays and they are all full of witty ENTP dialogue. The plot of "The Importance of Being Earnest" is really about a bunch of people who raised wasting time to an art form. (What is more ENTP than that?) Even when you look at say the emotional impact he gives through Dorian Grey, you have to realize that much of Dorian Grey's escapades mirror his own. He's writing from personal experience. (Wilde was known for being quite lecherous.)

Even on his deathbed he said, "Either that wallpaper goes, or I do." While lots of people are capable of making a joke on their deathbed, only an ENTP would actually choose to.

I'm sorry but this is really not a good argument either.

I agree that ENTPs are normally associated with being clever, but that definitely doesn't mean that being clever and witty is reserved for ENTPs. I can certainly imagine an ENFJ who would be just as witty; in fact, I know one. Plus, I can think of several INFJ writers whose sense of humor is strikingly similar to Wilde's. OrangeApples mentioned Morrissey; Angela Carter is another example.

Being "lecherous" is not reserved for ENTPs either. I've known a couple of ENFJs with very, let's say, adventurous lifestyle, and even if I didn't, lifestyle doesn't necessarily have anything to do with cognitive processes.
 

the state i am in

Active member
Joined
Feb 12, 2009
Messages
2,475
MBTI Type
infj
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
I'm sold on ENFJ :D. I've had a hard time pinning him also, and ENTP just never seemed right. I actually thought INFJ originally, but I can't see introvert for him after all. His witty humor always feels similar to Morrissey (an INFJ), who is greatly influenced by Wilde.

do you think morrissey is a 4w3 or a 4w5? i see leonard cohen as like right smack in the middle of these two characters. i can see him as infj somewhat, but i probably lean toward enfj 4w3 for him as well. i'm also wondering if dylan thomas is/was a 4w3?
 

Fecal McAngry

New member
Joined
Oct 31, 2009
Messages
976
Oscar Wilde on the other hand is the embodiment of ENTP. If I had to sum up ENTP in one word it would be "clever". ENTP's really like to be clever. Oscar Wilde is extremely quotable, and all of his quotes are known for being clever.
Oscar was exceedingly witty, and ENFPs are far wittier than ENTPs.

Clever, when used to describe ENTPs, applies, and it means something quite different from the verbal virtuosity found in some very bright ENFPs--clever refers to the ability of ENTPs to create logical arguments for any side, no matter how absurd, to invent creative new technology, whether it involves software, beating existing drug testing systems (Victor Conte), social wackiness (Timothy Leary), whatever.

Oscar used his Ne in a very self-centered, heartfelt manner. He was anything but detached. His writing boils over with introverted feeling...he was a true romantic, which belies his bluster (perhaps why some view him as a Ti)...

This is not the work of an ENTP: De Profundis by Oscar Wilde
 

OrangeAppled

Sugar Hiccup
Joined
Mar 20, 2009
Messages
7,626
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
4w5
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
do you think morrissey is a 4w3 or a 4w5? i see leonard cohen as like right smack in the middle of these two characters. i can see him as infj somewhat, but i probably lean toward enfj 4w3 for him as well. i'm also wondering if dylan thomas is/was a 4w3?

I think 4w5...and I see Morrissey solidly on the introverted side.

His lyrics seem very INFP at times actually (no surprise he is often typed as one), and I suppose this suggests he is a feeling dominant, but in interviews, he comes across differently.

I just cannot see a Fi-dom or a Fe-dom having this sort of epiphany:

Morrissey said:
Something within me triggered the understanding that absolutely nothing matters. This came from a lifelong worrier. I always over-worried about everything, and over-analyzed, and thought really too deeply about every aspect of life. Then suddenly I thought, well how can anything possible matter? It doesn't give one license to be violent or erratic or destructive, but nothing actually matters, and I say that with half a giggle, but it's true.

I mean, it's not as if any of us are of any particular importance. We are just matter floating around the universe, and anything we say or do has practically no bearing on anything. So why fold yourself in a ball of confusion about life?

Okay...sorry to derail the Wilde thread :D
 

Fecal McAngry

New member
Joined
Oct 31, 2009
Messages
976
do you think morrissey is a 4w3 or a 4w5? i see leonard cohen as like right smack in the middle of these two characters. i can see him as infj somewhat, but i probably lean toward enfj 4w3 for him as well. i'm also wondering if dylan thomas is/was a 4w3?
Can't help you with enemagram, and not familiar enough with Dylan Thomas, but Cohen and Morrissey are INFJs.

You told me again you preferred handsome men
but for me you would make an exception
 

Space_Oddity

New member
Joined
Oct 12, 2009
Messages
359
MBTI Type
CAT
Instinctual Variant
so
Oscar was exceedingly witty, and ENFPs are far wittier than ENTPs.

Clever, when used to describe ENTPs, applies, and it means something quite different from the verbal virtuosity found in some very bright ENFPs--clever refers to the ability of ENTPs to create logical arguments for any side, no matter how absurd, to invent creative new technology, whether it involves software, beating existing drug testing systems (Victor Conte), social wackiness (Timothy Leary), whatever.

Oscar used his Ne in a very self-centered, heartfelt manner. He was anything but detached. His writing boils over with introverted feeling...he was a true romantic, which belies his bluster (perhaps why some view him as a Ti)...

This is not the work of an ENTP: De Profundis by Oscar Wilde

I have to admit I could believe he was an ENFP in case the seeming Ni+Se I see in his works were not "real" Ni+Se but only very skillful fulfillment of the symbolism program, the Se I see in his life was actually Ne "dressed" as Se, and his introverted feeling was so strong it ended up resembling extroverted feeling. It's true that his works as well as his life show little detachment; he seemed very emotionally invested in everything he did, although I wouldn't say that every single Ni user must be detached.

One way or another, ENFx makes much more sense than any kind of a T.
 

Heart&Brain

New member
Joined
Mar 29, 2009
Messages
217
MBTI Type
ENFP
I have to admit I could believe he was an ENFP in case the seeming Ni+Se I see in his works were not "real" Ni+Se but only very skillful fulfillment of the symbolism program, the Se I see in his life was actually Ne "dressed" as Se, and his introverted feeling was so strong it ended up resembling extroverted feeling. It's true that his works as well as his life show little detachment; he seemed very emotionally invested in everything he did, although I wouldn't say that every single Ni user must be detached.

One way or another, ENFx makes much more sense than any kind of a T.

I think you made a strong case for ENFJ, I was convinced. (Though the ENFJs I know aren't as 'devellish' as Wilde, the INFJs are delightfully so :devil:).

Which brings me against the ENFP-idea, however much I'd like to have Wilde on our team: Ne with Fi may be disappointed over the shortcomings of reality, but there's an inherently optimist 'duty' attached as well. NFPs feel obliged to give people a chance, see the best in them and avoid harsh sarcasm / pessimism. I wouldn't be able to be that sharply judging people without feeling some kind of doubt or guilt, I think.

Ni on the other hand... it's always spot on all the shortcomings, obstacles, vanities and inevitable disappointments ahead. Users of Ni seem to be absolutely fine with merciless disillusion and can be very, very funny. Ni seems to involve a kind of lasersharp 'resignation', from where Fe or Te will pull their realistic acts to make the best / funniest / most efficient / etc. from the fundamentally tragic joke of a world.

It seems like Ne is of a more compulsively optimist nature, always in for unseen possibilities, no matter how left field and unrealistic they are. Not that ENxPs uncompromising standards and the resulting pessimism isn't constantly simmering silently in the Fi or Ti under Ne. :cry:

Anyway, you got me voting for Wilde as ENFJ. :nice:
 

sofmarhof

New member
Joined
Apr 30, 2009
Messages
327
MBTI Type
INTP
The problem is that if you look at young Oscar he is much more T. The Feeling shows up later in his life. I think that's a Thinker maturing and developing his Feeling.
 

Speed Gavroche

Whisky Old & Women Young
Joined
Oct 20, 2008
Messages
5,152
MBTI Type
EsTP
Enneagram
6w7
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
I'm sold on ENFJ :D. I've had a hard time pinning him also, and ENTP just never seemed right. I actually thought INFJ originally, but I can't see introvert for him after all. His witty humor always feels similar to Morrissey (an INFJ), who is greatly influenced by Wilde.

"To be influenced by an author" have nothing to do with MBTI type. Oscar Wilde influenced tons of people. Do you think taht they are all xNFJs? Wrong argument. Oscar Wilde was a quintessential ENTP 4w3. I know an (tested and confirmed) ENTP 4w3 who is very look a like with Oscar Wilde. I used to think he was ESFP, but clearly it was due to my lacxk of experience in typing. ENTP, I say.
 

OrangeAppled

Sugar Hiccup
Joined
Mar 20, 2009
Messages
7,626
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
4w5
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
"To be influenced by an author" have nothing to do with MBTI type. Oscar Wilde influenced tons of people. Do you think taht they are all xNFJs? Wrong argument. Oscar Wilde was a quintessential ENTP 4w3. I know an (tested and confirmed) ENTP 4w3 who is very look a like with Oscar Wilde. I used to think he was ESFP, but clearly it was due to my lacxk of experience in typing. ENTP, I say.

You only took half my argument...the other half was the similarity in expression to an INFJ, namely in the form of wit, an argument which is really no different from your "he reminds me of an XXXX friend" argument. How is he ENTP? He was quite romantic in many of his views & seemed to use little logic to support them - there's nothing ENTP about that.
 
B

brainheart

Guest
I'd say NF is clear. The J on the other hand, unsure why. Someone argued some garbage about NFJs being more intellectually witty than NFPs. I'm an INFP and people who know me personally consider me to have the driest intellectual wit around. Not saying he's an INFP; don't believe he is- very much the extrovert. I just don't consider that a legit argument.
 
B

brainheart

Guest
Even on his deathbed he said, "Either that wallpaper goes, or I do." While lots of people are capable of making a joke on their deathbed, only an ENTP would actually choose to.

Are you kidding me? I was cracking jokes to the firefighters after I fell rock climbing, multiple broken bones, etc, to make them feel better. They seemed seriously stressed out. And my Ne couldn't help noticing the similarity between my situation and a particular Simpson's episode. Humor is great for easing tensions. Pretty sure I'll be making funnies on my deathbed as well. And enneagram-wise, that is a very four thing to do, be disgusted by the wallpaper while dying.
 

Chiharu

New member
Joined
Feb 22, 2011
Messages
662
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
7w6
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
I would go with ENFP because of his fascination with beauty. I just can't see him as an NT, though I understand where you all are coming from on that. He's a tad childish, which is a landmark of ExxP's, IMO. If you look at his personal life though, his vanity and his aesthetic outlook mark him as an NF in my book.

ENFP's are chameleons. We're a little Rational, and in some ways half Artisan. We're spontaneous yet we plan. If he's ENFP, this would make him hard to type.
 

Beargryllz

New member
Joined
Jun 7, 2010
Messages
2,719
MBTI Type
INTP
Oscar Wilde could probably figure out Oscar Wilde's personality type
 
Top