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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by the state i am in View Post
    do you think morrissey is a 4w3 or a 4w5? i see leonard cohen as like right smack in the middle of these two characters. i can see him as infj somewhat, but i probably lean toward enfj 4w3 for him as well. i'm also wondering if dylan thomas is/was a 4w3?
    Can't help you with enemagram, and not familiar enough with Dylan Thomas, but Cohen and Morrissey are INFJs.

    You told me again you preferred handsome men
    but for me you would make an exception

  2. #32
    Senior Member Space_Oddity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fecal McAngry View Post
    Oscar was exceedingly witty, and ENFPs are far wittier than ENTPs.

    Clever, when used to describe ENTPs, applies, and it means something quite different from the verbal virtuosity found in some very bright ENFPs--clever refers to the ability of ENTPs to create logical arguments for any side, no matter how absurd, to invent creative new technology, whether it involves software, beating existing drug testing systems (Victor Conte), social wackiness (Timothy Leary), whatever.

    Oscar used his Ne in a very self-centered, heartfelt manner. He was anything but detached. His writing boils over with introverted feeling...he was a true romantic, which belies his bluster (perhaps why some view him as a Ti)...

    This is not the work of an ENTP: De Profundis by Oscar Wilde
    I have to admit I could believe he was an ENFP in case the seeming Ni+Se I see in his works were not "real" Ni+Se but only very skillful fulfillment of the symbolism program, the Se I see in his life was actually Ne "dressed" as Se, and his introverted feeling was so strong it ended up resembling extroverted feeling. It's true that his works as well as his life show little detachment; he seemed very emotionally invested in everything he did, although I wouldn't say that every single Ni user must be detached.

    One way or another, ENFx makes much more sense than any kind of a T.
    Her head hung down
    Gazed at earth, finally keen,
    As the rabbit at the stoat,
    Till the earth was sky,
    Sky that was green,
    And brown clouds passed
    Like chestnut leaves along the ground.

    - SUSAN ANN AND IMMORTALITY, T. E. Hulme

  3. #33
    Senior Member Heart&Brain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Space_Oddity View Post
    I have to admit I could believe he was an ENFP in case the seeming Ni+Se I see in his works were not "real" Ni+Se but only very skillful fulfillment of the symbolism program, the Se I see in his life was actually Ne "dressed" as Se, and his introverted feeling was so strong it ended up resembling extroverted feeling. It's true that his works as well as his life show little detachment; he seemed very emotionally invested in everything he did, although I wouldn't say that every single Ni user must be detached.

    One way or another, ENFx makes much more sense than any kind of a T.
    I think you made a strong case for ENFJ, I was convinced. (Though the ENFJs I know aren't as 'devellish' as Wilde, the INFJs are delightfully so ).

    Which brings me against the ENFP-idea, however much I'd like to have Wilde on our team: Ne with Fi may be disappointed over the shortcomings of reality, but there's an inherently optimist 'duty' attached as well. NFPs feel obliged to give people a chance, see the best in them and avoid harsh sarcasm / pessimism. I wouldn't be able to be that sharply judging people without feeling some kind of doubt or guilt, I think.

    Ni on the other hand... it's always spot on all the shortcomings, obstacles, vanities and inevitable disappointments ahead. Users of Ni seem to be absolutely fine with merciless disillusion and can be very, very funny. Ni seems to involve a kind of lasersharp 'resignation', from where Fe or Te will pull their realistic acts to make the best / funniest / most efficient / etc. from the fundamentally tragic joke of a world.

    It seems like Ne is of a more compulsively optimist nature, always in for unseen possibilities, no matter how left field and unrealistic they are. Not that ENxPs uncompromising standards and the resulting pessimism isn't constantly simmering silently in the Fi or Ti under Ne.

    Anyway, you got me voting for Wilde as ENFJ.

  4. #34
    Senior Member sofmarhof's Avatar
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    The problem is that if you look at young Oscar he is much more T. The Feeling shows up later in his life. I think that's a Thinker maturing and developing his Feeling.

  5. #35
    Whisky Old & Women Young Speed Gavroche's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    I'm sold on ENFJ . I've had a hard time pinning him also, and ENTP just never seemed right. I actually thought INFJ originally, but I can't see introvert for him after all. His witty humor always feels similar to Morrissey (an INFJ), who is greatly influenced by Wilde.
    "To be influenced by an author" have nothing to do with MBTI type. Oscar Wilde influenced tons of people. Do you think taht they are all xNFJs? Wrong argument. Oscar Wilde was a quintessential ENTP 4w3. I know an (tested and confirmed) ENTP 4w3 who is very look a like with Oscar Wilde. I used to think he was ESFP, but clearly it was due to my lacxk of experience in typing. ENTP, I say.
    EsTP 6w7 Sx/Sp

    Chaotic Neutral

    E=60% S=55% T=70% P=80%

    "I don't believe in guilt, I only believe in living on impulses"

    "Stereotypes about personality and gender turn out to be fairly accurate: ... On the binary Myers-Briggs measure, the thinking-feeling breakdown is about 30/70 for women versus 60/40 for men." ~ Bryan Caplan

  6. #36
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speed Gavroche View Post
    "To be influenced by an author" have nothing to do with MBTI type. Oscar Wilde influenced tons of people. Do you think taht they are all xNFJs? Wrong argument. Oscar Wilde was a quintessential ENTP 4w3. I know an (tested and confirmed) ENTP 4w3 who is very look a like with Oscar Wilde. I used to think he was ESFP, but clearly it was due to my lacxk of experience in typing. ENTP, I say.
    You only took half my argument...the other half was the similarity in expression to an INFJ, namely in the form of wit, an argument which is really no different from your "he reminds me of an XXXX friend" argument. How is he ENTP? He was quite romantic in many of his views & seemed to use little logic to support them - there's nothing ENTP about that.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

  7. #37
    brainheart
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    I'd say NF is clear. The J on the other hand, unsure why. Someone argued some garbage about NFJs being more intellectually witty than NFPs. I'm an INFP and people who know me personally consider me to have the driest intellectual wit around. Not saying he's an INFP; don't believe he is- very much the extrovert. I just don't consider that a legit argument.

  8. #38
    brainheart
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Liquid_Laser View Post
    Even on his deathbed he said, "Either that wallpaper goes, or I do." While lots of people are capable of making a joke on their deathbed, only an ENTP would actually choose to.
    Are you kidding me? I was cracking jokes to the firefighters after I fell rock climbing, multiple broken bones, etc, to make them feel better. They seemed seriously stressed out. And my Ne couldn't help noticing the similarity between my situation and a particular Simpson's episode. Humor is great for easing tensions. Pretty sure I'll be making funnies on my deathbed as well. And enneagram-wise, that is a very four thing to do, be disgusted by the wallpaper while dying.

  9. #39
    Senior Member Chiharu's Avatar
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    I would go with ENFP because of his fascination with beauty. I just can't see him as an NT, though I understand where you all are coming from on that. He's a tad childish, which is a landmark of ExxP's, IMO. If you look at his personal life though, his vanity and his aesthetic outlook mark him as an NF in my book.

    ENFP's are chameleons. We're a little Rational, and in some ways half Artisan. We're spontaneous yet we plan. If he's ENFP, this would make him hard to type.

  10. #40
    Senior Member Beargryllz's Avatar
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    Oscar Wilde could probably figure out Oscar Wilde's personality type

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