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  1. #11
    Senior Member Space_Oddity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spamtar View Post
    Hmm good points. In fact its my intuition that mostly tells me he is ENTP. Taking him as a J is difficult especially because his highjinx primarily occurred in Victorian England. However I am open to being convinced otherwise.

    What would be the most sure fire way on clearly distinguishing an ENTP from an ENFJ.
    I think the best way would truly be distinguishing if he uses Ne+Si or Ni+Se, as the judging functions are the same for these types. Personally, I certainly see more Ni+Se in him (the Se could perhaps be seen even in his lifestyle, I guess). Also, it's worth noting that if he was, let's say, ENFP, his functions that would be most "visible" would be Ne and Te (the extraverted functions), while the Feeling would be a little more hidden. I confess I fail to see any Te in him, and in my opinion he extraverted his feeling quite a lot. It's up to discussion if the other extraverted function of him was Ne or Se. I vote for the latter.

    Another personal reason of mine why I can't see him as an ENTP is that after reading The Happy Prince and Other Stories, one of the most poignant books I've ever read, I have serious problems seeing him as a thinker. In my opinion, The Picture of Dorian Gray shows feeling tendencies as well, and (just as The Happy Prince) it's heavy on symbolism, which is also more of a Ni domain. Besides that, I see ENFJs and INFJs as the most "thinking" of all feelers thanks to their Ti, which would explain the witty tone of other Wilde's works (just as his plays).

    I also don't think that being a J necessarily means following the norms. I see many revolutionaries as Js. I think it would be quite surprising if he was an SJ, but NJs are pretty open to change and often even induce it, if I'm not mistaken.
    Her head hung down
    Gazed at earth, finally keen,
    As the rabbit at the stoat,
    Till the earth was sky,
    Sky that was green,
    And brown clouds passed
    Like chestnut leaves along the ground.

    - SUSAN ANN AND IMMORTALITY, T. E. Hulme

  2. #12
    Ghost Monkey Soul Vizconde's Avatar
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    Thanks for the elaboration. Some very good points especially:

    Quote Originally Posted by Space_Oddity View Post
    The Picture of Dorian Gray shows feeling tendencies as well, and (just as The Happy Prince) it's heavy on symbolism, which is also more of a Ni domain.
    and
    Quote Originally Posted by Space_Oddity View Post
    I also don't think that being a J necessarily means following the norms. I see many revolutionaries as Js. I think it would be quite surprising if he was an SJ, but NJs are pretty open to change and often even induce it, if I'm not mistaken.
    (I find this tends to be especially true with NFJs)


    Logically I now feel torn between ENTP and ENFJ although my stuborn intution still insists ENTP.
    I redact everything I have written or will write on this forum prior to, subsequent with and or after the fact of its writing. For entertainment purposes only and not to be taken seriously nor literally.

    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
    Spamtar - a strange combination of boorish drunkeness and erudite discussions, or what I call "an Irish academic"

  3. #13

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    I'll be different and guess ISFP or ISTP.
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  4. #14
    Glowy Goopy Goodness The_Liquid_Laser's Avatar
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    I think if you type Oscar Wilde as anything but ENTP, then you don't really know what an ENTP is. It's kind of like saying Einstein is an INFJ or Michael Jordan is an INTJ. Some people really embody what a certain type is supposed to be. I can't think of anyone that embodies ENTP better than Oscar Wilde.
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  5. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Liquid_Laser View Post
    I think if you type Oscar Wilde as anything but ENTP, then you don't really know what an ENTP is.
    An interesting observation. I'm going with ISTP.
    Freude, schöner Götterfunken Tochter aus Elysium, Wir betreten feuertrunken, Himmlische, dein Heiligtum! Deine Zauber binden wieder Was die Mode streng geteilt; Alle Menschen werden Brüder, Wo dein sanfter Flügel weilt.

  6. #16
    Senior Member Space_Oddity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Liquid_Laser View Post
    I think if you type Oscar Wilde as anything but ENTP, then you don't really know what an ENTP is. It's kind of like saying Einstein is an INFJ or Michael Jordan is an INTJ. Some people really embody what a certain type is supposed to be. I can't think of anyone that embodies ENTP better than Oscar Wilde.
    This is not really a good argument, The_Liquid_Laser. I could easily turn it against you and tell you that if you think Oscar Wilde was anything but an NF, you don't really know what an NF temperament is.

    I think I understand where you're coming from because my mental image of an ENTP is often very "Wildean". I think it's somewhat ingrained in people's minds that ENTP = charming person with sharp wit. But that doesn't mean that in reality, another type cannot possess the exact same qualities and not be an ENTP. To be honest, even though I can easily "imagine" a Wildean ENTP, the ENTP males I know in real life don't remind me of Wilde in the slightest, and the ENTP females I know are easily comparable when it comes to their intellect, but they aren't comparable when it comes to their feeling side. Why? Because their Feeling is just in a "supporting role" for their Thinking, whereas Wilde's Thinking was in a supporting role for his Feeling. In my opinion, Wilde was primarily an idealist, not an intellectual, which is something one normally cannot tell about NTs because they would just cease to be NTs. (Likewise, Einstein clearly belonged to intellectuals, not idealists, and Michael Jordan can be hardly seen as anything else but an SP.)

    Curiously enough, the only person in my circle of acquaintances who really somewhat reminds me of Wilde is an ENFJ gay male, an aspiring writer with ideas and style very similar to Wilde's and truly impeccable wits.

    The main thing that rules out an NT for me, though, is again the fact that Wilde was so comfortable and skillfull in writing about deep emotions. The Happy Prince is one of the most "feeling" books I've ever read (easily comparable to INFP Andersen's fairy-tales, but more symbolic), and I would have yet to encounter another NT who would be able of this (they usually don't aspire to do this in the first place). INTJs and ENTPs do come close sometimes, but still, not quite. The whole point of The Happy Prince is to provoke strong emotions and subsequent change, which is an NF, specifically NFJ, area. I think that The Picture of Dorian Gray is primarily based on emotions as well. However, NTs primarily want to provoke thoughts, feeling tends to be secondary.
    Her head hung down
    Gazed at earth, finally keen,
    As the rabbit at the stoat,
    Till the earth was sky,
    Sky that was green,
    And brown clouds passed
    Like chestnut leaves along the ground.

    - SUSAN ANN AND IMMORTALITY, T. E. Hulme

  7. #17
    Man for all seasons dynamiteninja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Space_Oddity View Post
    The main thing that rules out an NT for me, though, is again the fact that Wilde was so comfortable and skillfull in writing deep emotions. The Happy Prince is one of the most "feeling" books I've ever read (easily comparable to INFP Andersen's fairy-tales, but more symbolic), and I would have yet to encounter another NT who would be able of this (they usually don't aspire to do this in the first place). INTJs and ENTPs do come close sometimes, but still, not quite. The whole point of The Happy Prince is to provoke strong emotions and subsequent change, which is an NF, specifically NFJ, area. I think that The Picture of Dorian Gray is primarily based on emotions as well. However, NTs primarily want to provoke thoughts, feeling tends to be secondary.
    This sells it for me. It does seem very likely to me that The Happy Prince and The Picture of Dorian Gray were written by an NF.
    4w5 sp

  8. #18
    Senior Member Grace's Avatar
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    We should take a vote. I think I would have to go with ENFP based mainly on his sense of humor. It seems NFP to me.

  9. #19
    Glowy Goopy Goodness The_Liquid_Laser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Space_Oddity View Post
    This is not really a good argument, The_Liquid_Laser. I could easily turn it against you and tell you that if you think Oscar Wilde was anything but an NF, you don't really know what an NF temperament is.
    I'm not trying to make a good argument, because you can't argue about something like this. I can't make an argument that the grass is green either. Either you can see the grass is green or you can't. There is no point trying to convince someone that grass is green if they don't know what green is.

    It's the same with trying to argue that Oscar Wilde is an ENTP. If a person doesn't know what it means to be ENTP, then they'll never accept that Oscar Wilde is ENTP. On the other hand a person who understands what an ENTP is will see that Oscar Wilde is the definitive ENTP. I can't think of a better archetypal example.
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  10. #20
    Senior Member the state i am in's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Liquid_Laser View Post
    It's the same with trying to argue that Oscar Wilde is an ENTP. If a person doesn't know what it means to be ENTP, then they'll never accept that Oscar Wilde is ENTP. On the other hand a person who understands what an ENTP is will see that Oscar Wilde is the definitive ENTP. I can't think of a better archetypal example.
    seriously? think harder. benjamin franklin. or any other myriad of entp inventors. people who create fucking crazy ideas.

    wilde is a 4w3, and i think enfj makes more sense than entp. he could have been an entp, but the premise of a picture of dorian gray sounds about as Fe as it gets. literally seeing yourself, the exterior of yourself, thru the eyes of an other. this does not sound Ti. he sounds like inferior Ti.

    also, fucking quentin tarantino. that's an entp (granted a 7w8). Ti rationality being stylized in a difficult-to-resist way, but with the two scoops of fucking crazy of Ne.

    one of my best friends is an entp 4w3, and while he'd dig oscar wilde, he's not oscar wilde. he's too rational. he solves problems too easily (much to his credit). his Ti-Fe balance is as good as i've ever seen from anyone, but he's Ti first, he uses Fe to perfectly balance his Ti.

    enfj is so much more dandy. and 4w3 is the penultimate style bricoleur.

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