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Hitler

What type is Hitler?


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Thalassa

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Jesus' reaction would be more fitting (though I don't believe in typing him, and it's not about just any kind of anger). He clearly was not set out to dominate by force.

When talking about Jesus, I've always found this to be an interesting verse: "Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword." Matthew 10:34
 

VagrantFarce

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When talking about Jesus, I've always found this to be an interesting verse: "Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword." Matthew 10:34

To be fair, referencing the Bible as if its a consistent text is a bit silly. :)
 

Eric B

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You have to take verses like that in context. The "sword" in that case is not Jesus taking any malicious action. It's those who hate him persecuting those who follow him. (i.e. next verses: "For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man's foes [shall be] they of his own household". To Israelites who did not believe in him, you would be seen as a traitor), but you must choose Christ over them. The malice is coming from them, however.
 
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Sniffles

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I posted this before in an earlier thread about this:

We have seen that maturity came to Hitler relatively late - a condition that led Heer to write that throughout his life there remained something incomplete in his personality...it might even be argued that this astonishing man, with all his talents and self-discipline, never really achieved maturity - by which I mean the existence of that deep-seated private judgement whereby a person comes to terms with the relationship of himself and his circumstances (a recognition that is not necessarily identical with his view of his destiny, or with a sense of that resignation which comes with age....Peter Kleist, one of Ribbentrop's satellites, wrote in his memoirs: "I had the oppurtunity to study his face carefully. It has amazed me because of the multiplicity of expressions it contained...Photography, by selecting only a single moment out of context, could show only one aspect, thereby giving a false impression of the duplicity or multiplicity of being which lay behind this image." He added: "I tried to find some explanation for the hypnotic effect of those eyes without arriving at any explanation."...

...Schramm's remarks about the ambivalence of Hitler's expressions: "The friend of women, children and animals - this was one face of Hitler neither acted nor feigned, but entirely geniune. There was, however, a second face which he did not show to his table companions, though it was no less geniune."

One element in his character was that of the artist. He was a talented draftsman and painter, and a potential architect...A bohemian Hitler was, as Speer often remarked, very evident in his working habits - untill about 1942 he rose late, ate late, and frittered away many hours. Speer commented, "I have often asked myself often: when did he really work?" (This when he was the most powerful dictator in the world)....

...Hitler was a desperate man, while at the same time, he was a visionary of a new, heroic, pagan, and scientific world.
He was an unhappy child and an unhappy adolescent, spurred by shame and resentment, surely after 1918...He was also a strong man; and a fundamental source of his strength was hatred. Yet his hatreds did not coagulate untill he was thirty years old. Before that he remained a boy; at thirty, he became a man suffused with vengence. And what is vengence but the idea of causing suffering in order to heal one's own suffering? The German word for vengence is "Rache". There are few more threatening guttural words in the German language.
--John Lukacs, the Hitler of History, pg. 68, 69-70, 71, 72
 
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Sniffles

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Then here are a couple of Hitler's own descriptions of his thinking process:

Bear in mind that my mind works like a calculating machine. Each person who makes a presentation to me introduces into this calculating machine a small wheel of information. There forms a certain picture, or a number on each wheel. I press a button and there flashes into my mind the sum of all this information.
--cited in Warlords: An Extraordinary Re-Creation of World War II Through the Eyes and Minds of Hitler, Churchill, Roosevelt, And Stalin pg. 26

When I go to Obersalzberg, I'm not drawn there merely by the beauty of the landscape. I feel myself far from petty things, and my imagination is stimulated. When I study a problem elsewhere, I see it less clearly; I'm submerged by the details. By night, at the Berghof, I often remain for hours with my eyes open, contemplating from my bed the mountains lit up by the Moon. It's at such moments that brightness enters my mind.
--inbid pg. 50


This seems to suggest Ni.
 

Eric B

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I think most people will agree that he was an Ni user. Beebe suggested it was "demonic" (last place), and I do not know enough to dispute that, but this would be good evidence against it, though Beebe could probably argue that the "visionary" part of the quote is tied to the "desparate man", "unhappy child", etc.

The artistry would also suggest Fi in an "immature" (tertiary or inferior) position, though, and the main dispute is whether he is a TJ or FJ.
 
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Aerithria

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Is there an NFJ in existence that doesn't value harmony?

I just can't imagine an NFJ starting a fucking World War.

Seriously? You've never heard of an NFJ who was so wrapped up in their idea of how society "should" operate that they decide to take measures in their own hands? Hitler operated based on a moral belief about Jewish people. He didn't do it because it was cost effective. He did value harmony -- that's the whole point. He just had extreme views on how harmony should be achieved.

NFJs are stereotyped to be all into love, harmony, and tra-la-la. They're also stereotyped as cult leaders.
 

Bubbleboy

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They're also stereotyped as cult leaders.
I'm still wondering how the hell an INTJ could manage to make sway an entire country (or enough of it anyway) into war and cold-blooded murder and make them feel like they were completely within their rights to do so. It doesn't seem very NT to me to use such complex brainwashing.

Are there anyone who've read the (or a book) book who are in doubt about his MBTI temperament?
 
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Theodor

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Is there an NFJ in existence that doesn't value harmony?

I just can't imagine an NFJ starting a fucking World War.

Usama bin Ladin and Ayman al-Zawahiri? So plz don't tell me that NF:s with fucked up values can't be evil. Also check out Gandhi, the ultimate "good" INFJ, and his views on black people...

So in my opinion nothing stops Hitler from being an NF...
 

BlueinGreen

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Obviously Hitler is a psycho version of whatever type he is, and people of any type are perfectly capable of becoming psychos. He's not a representative figure of any type, and it's silly to a) consider him a prototypical ____ and/or b) take offense if someone types him the same as you. Hell, I'm willing to admit he could be a bat-shit infp, although I think infj is more likely and that's my guess.

^To the above, based on the testimony of bin Laden's almost certainly infp son, I don't really think Osama is an F, more likely a dogmatic T. But that's a topic for another thread.
 

Bubbleboy

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Obviously Hitler is a psycho version of whatever type he is, and people of any type are perfectly capable of becoming psychos. He's not a representative figure of any type, and it's silly to a) consider him a prototypical ____ and/or b) take offense if someone types him the same as you. Hell, I'm willing to admit he could be a bat-shit infp, although I think infj is more likely and that's my guess.

^To the above, based on the testimony of bin Laden's almost certainly infp son, I don't really think Osama is an F, more likely a dogmatic T. But that's a topic for another thread.
I think it's obvious he was unhealthy and inbalanced. His natural lifespan would have been halved by his lifestyle. The issue is whether he was an unhealthy INTJ ENTJ or INFJ.
 

Siúil a Rúin

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One of the two types I suspect Hitler of being was is not in the poll. I also think that he does not represent any type because of his deep mental dysfunction. I heard people claim he is INFJ years ago, and I did some research into his life and personally don't see it. It is possible I am biased to not have him be a similar type as myself, and I admit it is compelling just how many people say NFJ of some sort. I think he was profoundly disconnected from his emotions. I think he had a deep hatred for his mother, but she was controlling in a way that he psychologically suppressed it. He was without a doubt a strategist, but so much so that personal authenticity was completely lost. He was similar to many power obsessed cruel-minded people in that he was quite pampering towards himself. He internalized nothing, but was able to always deflect his rage outwardly. There isn't much sign of wrestling with guilt or feeling responsible. This is not consistent with either INFJs, ENFPs, or INFPs. The only case I can see for guilt is that he was not "pure" himself, and so there was an implicit self-hatred expressed outwardly, but completely subconscious and outside his awareness. I don't think he had much awareness of his true feelings which were horribly mangled and his coping strategy was highly controlled, using them as a means to accomplish power. He had an uncanny ability to thwart assassination attempts to the point that he was like an evil Mr. Magoo. He was connected to the external environment and deeply intuitive about it. His mind was by nature predatory which allowed him to predict predatory actions towards himself. He could mimic others and did. He would do this publicly to make people feel uncomfortable and as a power tactic. He extensively studied facial expressions and gestures and strategically implemented these. None of his expression was spontaneous, but was put on as a means to achieve his goal. He was technical about everything down to the nuance of his communication.

It is interesting how many people are certain of NFJ, and it would be helpful to provide specific examples from Hitler's life and an explanation for that view. There are some horrible, cruel violators that I do suspect of being NFJ, so it isn't a matter of just deflecting any refuse away from my type, although part of me would like to.
 
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Sniffles

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I think he had a deep hatred for his mother, but she was controlling in a way that he psychologically suppressed it.
Wrong. He was actually very devoted to his mother and would constantly visit her grave, even after he came to power. It was towards his father Hitler harbored deep hatred for(for trying squash his dreams of being an artist and giving severe physical beatings).
 

simulatedworld

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I don't see how xNFJ is even arguable.

Personally I go with ENFJ, which I think is a much more obvious choice than INFJ, but if you're not going with one of the NFJ types on this one then you need to read up on your Mein Kampf!
 
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Sniffles

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Yes Ive read Mein Kampf along with its sequel. I've also read several of the major biographies about the man, including the US Army's psychological profile it compiled on Hitler during the war.
 

simulatedworld

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Yes Ive read Mein Kampf along with its sequel. I've also read several of the major biographies about the man, including the US Army's psychological profile it compiled on Hitler during the war.

And you say xNFJ! Agreed.
 

Siúil a Rúin

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Wrong. He was actually very devoted to his mother and would constantly visit her grave, even after he came to power. It was towards his father Hitler harbored deep hatred for(for trying squash his dreams of being an artist and giving severe physical beatings).
That doesn't prove anything. I said "suppressed" rage. Overt rage doesn't get misdirected, it is the rage people cannot admit to feeling, and are unaware of that gets deflected irrationally. His relationship towards women, including his niece (whom he would allow to leave his apartment and who eventually committed suicide), suggests deep issues towards women. I do not buy that he had a loving, healthy relationship with his mother. People are not by nature compartmentalized in that way. People often outwardly express in a compartmentalized manner, but that is not the whole picture.
 

simulatedworld

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OH BUT WAIT GUYS HIS ASTROLOGY CHART SAYS OTHERWISE!!!
 
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