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View Poll Results: What type is Hitler?

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  • ENTJ

    16 13.22%
  • ENFJ

    31 25.62%
  • ENFP

    3 2.48%
  • INFP

    13 10.74%
  • INTJ

    10 8.26%
  • INFJ

    40 33.06%
  • ISFP

    1 0.83%
  • ESTJ

    6 4.96%
  • ESFJ

    1 0.83%
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Thread: Hitler

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ace_ View Post
    It invalidates your argument about me looking at the world in terms of 21st century enlightened global values.

    Neither Gandhi nor Goethe lived in the 21st century. In fact they lived before Hitler.
    First of all, I think Goethe had Fi not Fe. But that's beside the point, really.

    Fe is a group-oriented function, and bases its values upon what serves the greater good in a particular group. Fe's concept of "righteousness" can change from culture to culture. It isn't some concrete example of what your personal particular culture thinks is "right" or "good."

    Hitler wanted to protect Germany. He wanted to rebuild Germany. He had all the charisma of an ENFJ messiah. He hated Jews because he believed that they killed Jesus. He eradicated people who he thought were deviant to the greater good. Even healthy Fe doms do this to an extent: admonish, lecture, punish, or simply exclude the individuals in the vicinity who will not "get with the program."

  2. #32
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    ISTP was my guess, but it's not an option on the poll.

  3. #33
    Senior Member Ace_'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueGray View Post
    So because not all people of a type come to the same conclusion means they can't be the same type? You seem to imply that everyone within a type is identical and that all experiences have no effect on how a person acts.
    Where did I imply that?

    Another point: in the ENTJ profile it says they may become dictatorial or abrasive if underdeveloped. There's no mention of that in the NFJ profiles or any other NF profiles for that matter. NFJs are at their worst smothering and over-protective.

    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    First of all, I think Goethe had Fi not Fe. But that's beside the point, really.

    Fe is a group-oriented function, and bases its values upon what serves the greater good in a particular group. Fe's concept of "righteousness" can change from culture to culture. It isn't some concrete example of what your personal particular culture thinks is "right" or "good."

    Hitler wanted to protect Germany. He wanted to rebuild Germany. He had all the charisma of an ENFJ messiah. He hated Jews because he believed that they killed Jesus. He eradicated people who he thought were deviant to the greater good. Even healthy Fe doms do this to an extent: admonish, lecture, punish, or simply exclude the individuals in the vicinity who will not "get with the program."
    On Fe in ENFJs: "They may be so attuned to what is socially accepted or expected that they're unable to assess whether something is "right" or "wrong" outside of what their social circle expects."

    So did Germany expect from Hitler to kill all the Jews and go to war with every country in the world? I don't think so. They wanted prosperity and peace. And an NFJ would also always prefer peace over war. Just like Gandhi for example.

    "Hitler wanted to protect Germany. He wanted to rebuild Germany." - And ENTJs don't do those things? There are many ENTJ leaders and politicians who want to improve their countries and cities and what not. In fact, they live for it!

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ace_ View Post
    I just can't imagine an NFJ starting a fucking World War.
    Well Hitler didnt intend for it to become a world war. He originally conceived it as a local war with Poland. He thought the French and British wouldn't intervene.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ace_ View Post


    On Fe in ENFJs: "They may be so attuned to what is socially accepted or expected that they're unable to assess whether something is "right" or "wrong" outside of what their social circle expects."
    Hence all of the Nazi followers who loved the hell out of Hitler.

    So did Germany expect from Hitler to kill all the Jews and go to war with every country in the world? I don't think so. They wanted prosperity and peace. And an NFJ would also always prefer peace over war. Just like Gandhi for example.
    Your constant use of Ghandi is getting comical. Not all INFJs are like Ghandi, and some people even believe he was INFP.

    P.S. Barack Obama, famous American president and ENFJ, just deployed MOAR troops to Afghanistan.

    "Hitler wanted to protect Germany. He wanted to rebuild Germany." - And ENTJs don't do those things? There are many ENTJ leaders and politicians who want to improve their countries and cities and what not. In fact, they live for it!
    You're entitled to your opinion about Hitler, I won't attempt to argue with you anymore on that because it's pointless.

    However, I will say that your view of NFs is completely fanciful and delusional.

  6. #36
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    [SIZE=2]With all the stuff about him being F or Fe because he was promoting/driven by values, or the passion and emotion, and had a good command over people, which is said to be good (strong) Fe use, etc. but it seems like that might have been more "shadowy" in his deranged state. The question is; how exactly was he using Fe? In a good, "parental" fashion, supporting others? Or was it more "destructive"? It's not about how visible or "strong" the function is, (which is what a lot of people trying on types or typing others get hung up on, especially when observing the comparitive stengths in the results of Nardi's cognitive processes tests).
    Just think about what Fe in the "Deceiving" or "Destructive" (7th, 8th) position would be like. In Berens' descriptions: "Under stress, they may be deceived into over-addressing others' concerns..." (Deceiving); "When really stressed, they become convinced others don't appreciate or like them. [And hence, the martyrdom complex people like this often develop] Then they overaccommodate other's needs and feel put upon" (Destructive).

    Also, using the block system with the generic four functions, (1/2 confident; 3/4 vulnerable), we can ask, which was more confident and mature, or more vulnerable or immature: Thinking or Feeling? I see him as very effective with extraverted Thinking. (Some will point out stuff like bad military moves, but there are many other people involved in that, and the fact that he still came so close to world domination inspite of that you can't ignore). When the values come out so negatively and defensively like that, it is likely coming from a vulnerable area. A vulnerable Fi anima shadowed by this destructive Fe that manipulated people to serve an ultimate "heroic" cold Te agenda.

    It seems INFJ's are always getting a bad rap for this stuff (by members of the type's own "admission", even). Goes along with Keirsey's claim that NF="choleric". I see some here occasionally even throw an NFP claim in the mix. (People using the "humour" names will all use Hitler as the purest example of a Choleric gone wrong). Yet, Choleric is more than just emotiveness. It's about aggressiveness, pragmatism and extreme task or structure focus.
    I have even dealt with one person posing as an INFJ, yet I now believe is ENTJ, and even goes to great lengths pretending to be "allergic" to Te! Yet the person was all along all about business, business, business, and would at first criticize me for "playing around", yet in the end claim I ruined their "recreation", and then even talk about "restraining orders" and stuff in a hostile e-mail to someone else copied to me just to get the last word. (Typical martyrdom complex. Does all the aggression, and then turns it all around so that you "bullied" them when reacting, projects their own "turf war" premise on you or others, and has sway over supporters who go along with everything they say or do. Had a cousin like this too). Group values or a sense of "us" only came up as a tool of social destruction. Otherwise, they could not even so much as say "hi" to people!
    (again, this is not to give the ENTJ the bad rap now, but again, we are talking about unhealthy types, and the cold ("anasthetic") behavior is a negative extension of T, not F. For instance, INTP gone wrong is a Unabomber. Same cold determination; different means; and without the command over people).

    INFJ's supposedly do the "door slam", yet are said to be crushed inside when they do it. But anyone trying to bulldoze others and "win" like that is an unhealthy NT, not NF. I would think Ace is right, and an unhealthy NFJ would likely be more of what we could call a "foot-stomping co-dependent". They would be "directive", and get nasty in conflict, and could in dire situations even possibly strike out and kill when feeling used and unappreciated. (like "the butler did it"). Yet, they will not be going and commanding people just for the purpose of domination. That is clearly an off-kilter heroic Te coupled with demonic Fe used to manipulate, socially.

    The Te goals are what are being effectively accomplished. The Fe's goals (all the "harmony" in Germany, as everyone cites) is what becomes the disaster. It is the "beastly oaf" that undermines the ego's goals, as Beebe puts it. That's how to know which is preferred and which is shadow when you see two functions like that being used strongly. (Though Beebe suggested he was an Si type with demonic Ni. ISTJ would make more sense before any F would. Jung is also said to have claimed he was untypable from being so messed up).
    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    NFJ.
    The feminine side of his character, labeled 'bohemian', 'intuitive' and 'artistic', was obvious to those who knew him. Otto Dietrich put it this way: 'By nature Hitler was a bohemian. He allowed himself to be guided almost exclusively by emotional considerations...He often said that a single brilliant idea was more valuable than a whole lifetime of conscientious office work.'

    Even the uncritical Below had to admit being befuddled by his Fhrer's manifest contradictions. In his opinion, Hitler was victim of two conflicting drives. On the one hand he was an artist, with the artist's love of freedom and his reliance on intuition and inspiration. On the other hand he believed, like Rienzi, that he had no choice but to sacrifice himself to save his fatherland. The aesthetic impulse, Below maintained, could never be reconciled with the demands of state. Fritz Wiedemann put it less poetically. Hitler, he said, liked to believe that 'problems resolve themselves', and he therefore simply let troublesome matters slide. In any case with the passage of time these various characteristics became more pronounced. 'The surer Hitler felt in the possession of power,' according to Fest, 'the more conspicuously his old bohemian traits came to the fore, his laspes into torpor, his moodiness.' The point was repeatedly confirmed in Goebbel's diaries. Far from being the invariably firm, decisive dictator that he appeared publicly to be, Hitler could often be a dilatory and wavering leader.
    [SIZE=2]--Frederic Spotts, Hitler and the Power of Aesthetics pg.92-93
    This stuff still sounds more like a hero Te driven by aspirational Fi. Especially the "sacrificing" part. He's not really doing it directly for the people of the country (considering and responding to their wishes); it's a deep internal/universal value.

    If not ENTJ, the next thing I would give him is INTJ. He could possibly be an introvert who simply rose up to the spotlight, and ahd a lot of built in anger not expressed before.
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  7. #37
    Senior Member VagrantFarce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    This stuff still sounds more like a hero Te driven by aspirational Fi. Especially the "sacrificing' part. He's not really doing it directly for the people of the country (considering and responding to their wishes); it's a deep internal/universal value.
    [/SIZE]
    Yes! He couldn't give a damn about the German people. To him, their death was a result of their failure to live up to Aryan values.
    Hello

  8. #38
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Some of the types are missing in the poll.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

  9. #39
    Nerd King Usurper Edgar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ace_ View Post
    Yeah, but would an NFJ kill tens of millions of people to make it happen?

    Would an NF plan and plot to do that for years and years cold bloodedly?

    Would an INFJ be comfortable if 99% of people were afraid of him?
    Hitler did not see Jews, Gypsies, Slavs, Negroes, etc as full fledged humans, hence the term "untermensch" (subhuman) that was designated to those races. As far as he was concerned, he was saving the actual humans (Aryans) from the destruction that awaited them at the hands of the subhumans.

    And for the record, Hitler was described as a warm and gracious host by his guests.

    I'm not sure how it is so hard for you to fathom that an NF could be a murder. Having NF designation does not preclude one from being a psychopath or a sociopath. Even Jesus went apeshit on tax collectors once.

    The MBTI descriptions you read shouldn't be taken too literally. Not all NTs are smart, not all SJs are honest, and not all NFs are benevolent.
    Listen to me, baby, you got to understand, you're old enough to learn the makings of a man.

  10. #40
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
    Hitler did not see Jews, Gypsies, Slavs, Negroes, etc as full fledged humans, hence the term "untermensch" (subhuman) that was designated to those races. As far as he was concerned, he was saving the actual humans (Aryans) from the destruction that awaited them at the hands of the subhumans.

    And for the record, Hitler was described as a warm and gracious host by his guests.
    That's part of the destructive Fe. You mimick being this caring host to manipulate and sway people, but then the true colors come out when regarding others as subhuman.

    I'm not sure how it is so hard for you to fathom that an NF could be a murder. Having NF designation does not preclude one from being a psychopath or a sociopath. Even Jesus went apeshit on tax collectors once.

    The MBTI descriptions you read shouldn't be taken too literally. Not all NTs are smart, not all SJs are honest, and not all NFs are benevolent.
    It's more than just about murder or benevolence. It's about what the ego's goals are. Anyone can murder, and anyone can be benevolent. Jesus' reaction would be more fitting (though I don't believe in typing him, and it's not about just any kind of anger). He clearly was not set out to dominate by force.
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