Hitler

[Thalassa]

Yes, Beebe is the one who made me start thinking I had demon Ne instead of dom Ne.

I'm still deciding what I think about that.

 

[Mal12345]

People can do that, just to manipulate, and it not be their true preference. Again, that could even be Trickster or Demon Fe.

That's true. Because Hitler never mentioned love of humanity in speeches from the 1920s-30s. He mentioned love of the German people and Germany itself.

 

[Eric B]

Yes, Beebe is the one who made me start thinking I had demon Ne instead of dom Ne.

I'm still deciding what I think about that.

What made you think Demon Ne?
The Demonic Personality Complex is basically constellated as a reaction against severe threats to the ego, like where you fear something or someone is trying to destroy your sense of identity or what you stand for. A lot of things may make a person feel that kind of threat, and hence, the function may come up strongly, as the right-brain alternative.

So that might be why you weigh between both. But still,the un-preferred one will tend to carry a more negative association (even when it comes through positively, as the "angel" or transformer), while the other one will be the more natural default function, carrying the ego's normal sense of "I".

That's true. Because Hitler never mentioned love of humanity in speeches from the 1920s-30s. He mentioned love of the German people and Germany itself.

I never even knew that. Yeah, that's even more evidence of some sort of personality "mask"! And the nationalism is not necessarily Fe either. It too is just used as part of an [impersonal] agenda.

 

[Speed Gavroche]

When NFs were supposed to love humanity?

Strong part of NFs value horses, trees and sea turtle over humans being.

 

[Thalassa]

What made you think Demon Ne?
The Demonic Personality Complex is basically constellated as a reaction against severe threats to the ego, like where you fear something or someone is trying to destroy your sense of identity or what you stand for. A lot of things may make a person feel that kind of threat, and hence, the function may come up strongly, as the right-brain alternative.

This is probably my worst flaw:

ESxP's: emergent conceptualization makes me feel totally lost and you're taking advantage of this:
•[I "over-read 'between the lines'" and project this onto you by "misinterpreting the meaning of someone's actions and attributing ne
gative intentions where there were none" (Berens)], so I'm going to react accordingly."

I can't tell you how much that is so me.

I also started thinking since I always felt I "had a lot of Si for an ENFP" that perhaps it's because Si is my Opposing Personality Complex instead of my Inferior.

 

[Orangey]

BEST!

After going along with the herd with INFJ for a while, I think ISTJ is a much better type call for Hitler. So much better that I thought of creating a new thread on the topic, but then I decided to bump this one instead.

As always it is necessary to state up front that not everybody goes along with their type. But in this case, Hitler's belief in the existence of "golems" demonstrates the presence of an inferior function related to Si: his inner world was full of strange objects that he believed existed in reality. "God" might be considered one of them, but for Hitler it is just a conservative Si belief that coincides with being raised a Catholic.

The idea that Hitler was an INFJ because he had a desire to produce artworks is a false stereotype. In fact, his primary desire growing up was to join the Catholic priesthood.

Hitler's nationalistic fervor is Si at its worst.

If Hitler was an INFJ or ISFJ, the Fe is not very apparent. But the Te is very apparent. It gave him the ability to amass and organize vast armies, and perhaps also the ability to manipulate his audiences through his fervent git'r'dun speeches.

ISTJ Motivational Posters:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mqv7StpErdk

Finally someone agrees with me. He was SUCH an ISTJ.

Ha! It's not even in the poll options. Fail.

 

[Mal12345]

I never even knew that. Yeah, that's even more evidence of some sort of personality "mask"! And the nationalism is not necessarily Fe either. It too is just used as part of an [impersonal] agenda.

It is very common for typologists to diagnose Hitler as some type "gone wrong" and evincing an inferior function. I just don't see the inferior function as being that powerful an influence, even granting the (spiritual/noumenal) reality of inferior functions.

In Hitler's case, his belief in the existence of golems does not strike me as highly influential, and from my Jungian reading it seems to be due to the influence of an inferior function (such as Ne). If it's true what they say about his interest in astrology and the like (Nostradamus), then that is just Si evincing an inferior function.

However, Hitler's paintings do not depict any kind of bizarre imagery from the unconscious, but are naturalistic (and quite well done).
http://quazen.com/arts/art-history/10-paintings-by-adolf-hitler/

 

[Lexicon]

[YOUTUBE="AIZKZ3C1ML8"][/YOUTUBE]

 

[The Ü™]

Come on, even Keirsey believes he was an Idealist. (Healer, specifically.)

 

[ThatGirl]

OMG! Who cares?!?! The guy was an idiot.

 

[Thalassa]

 

[Eric B]

This is probably my worst flaw:

I can't tell you how much that is so me.

I also started thinking since I always felt I "had a lot of Si for an ENFP" that perhaps it's because Si is my Opposing Personality Complex instead of my Inferior.

Is that your primary experience of Ne? Does Se usually carry a more natural, positive feeling? (Remember, whichever one is going to be the ego's main world-view).

You don't identify at all with :
"zero in on isolated details, hastily acting on them in a chaotic disjointed way" (Berens):
•feels undone by emergent tangible experience not under control of conceptual knowledge, and projects by trying to destroy others with rash impulsive reactions

Well, maybe you could be ESFP. You always did seem more conceptual minded, and NF-ish in some of the stuff you talk about. Or it could just be the parent Fi I was seeing.

 

[Lexicon]

oh no no no not the remake!!!



[YOUTUBE="K08akOt2kuo"] the very best hitler. [/YOUTUBE]

 

[Thalassa]

Is that your primary experience of Ne? Does Se usually carry a more natural, positive feeling? (Remember, whichever one is going to be the ego's main world-view).

You don't identify at all with :
"zero in on isolated details, hastily acting on them in a chaotic disjointed way" (Berens):
•feels undone by emergent tangible experience not under control of conceptual knowledge, and projects by trying to destroy others with rash impulsive reactions

Well, maybe you could be ESFP. You always did seem more conceptual minded, and NF-ish in some of the stuff you talk about. Or it could just be the parent Fi I was seeing.

I do seem very NF-ish. I have been convinced that I am NF. I almost always test as xNFP on the four dichotomies.

But then I read Keirsey, and I'm like....wait a second. Why am I this weird blend between NF and SP?

And then I start to wonder why I value my Si so much, why I'd be so in touch with it as an ENFP.

Then I read Beebe's Demon Ne theory.

Finally, I take into consideration how combative I am vs. other NFs. I seem to seek confrontation rather than avoiding it, and while I'm relatively physically docile as an adult, I went through a pretty impulsive phase of mild violence between the ages of approximately 15 until sometime in my early 20s. That's NF behavior? Is it really?

I don't know. I'm inclined to lean toward ENFP, but ESFP no longer seems that ridiculous to me, either.

 

[Sniffles]

In Hitler's case, his belief in the existence of golems does not strike me as highly influential, and from my Jungian reading it seems to be due to the influence of an inferior function (such as Ne). If it's true what they say about his interest in astrology and the like (Nostradamus), then that is just Si evincing an inferior function.

Hitler's belief in golems? Where did you hear about this? Concerning astrology, Hitler didn't really believe in astrology or much of the occult. Deputy Führer Rudolf Hess was the one really into astrology.

 

[Mal12345]

Hitler's belief in golems? Where did you hear about this? Concerning astrology, Hitler didn't really believe in astrology or much of the occult. Deputy Führer Rudolf Hess was the one really into astrology.

Golems were Jewish mythological creatures allegedly sent to kill Hitler, he feared them so he must have believed in them. The golem was a product of Rabbi Loew in the 16th century, its task was to kill all the enemies of the Jew. Hitler believed he was chosen by an occult influence. Yep, Hess was into astrology, but Hitler was into Nostradamus, possibly as a propaganda tool and possibly also as a personal belief. Nostradamus allegedly predicted his rise to power, and also his eventual victory. Hitler famously believed his life was saved during a WWI battle by an occult presence whispering to him to move a few feet from where an enemy shell then landed.

 

[Sniffles]

Golems were Jewish mythological creatures allegedly sent to kill Hitler, he feared them so he must have believed in them.

Source?

Yep, Hess was into astrology, but Hitler was into Nostradamus, possibly as a propaganda tool and possibly also as a personal belief.

No, he didn't. He often dismissed astrology as nothing more than "Medieval rubbish", and often privately mocked those Nazis like Himmler and Rosenberg especially who took it seriously. Goebbels did use Nostradamus largely as a propaganda tool, but so did the Allies for that matter.

Nostradamus allegedly predicted his rise to power, and also his eventual victory.

That's questionable at best, since Nostradamus makes references to "Hister", which was the old name for the Danube. Of course John Hogue tries to twist this around by claiming Hitler was born on the Danube. However the Quatrains are often vague as to mean anything you want.

Hitler famously believed his life was saved during a WWI battle by an occult presence whispering to him to move a few feet from where an enemy shell then landed.

Yes I've heard this story too. However, you often only hear about this in the specific subgenre specifically dealing with Nazism and the Occult, which presents significant problems - as Nicholas Goodrick-Clarke has ironically noted.

 

[Mal12345]

Source?

It's not to be found on the internet, so you won't have ready confirmation. Believe what you want. Not every fact that exists is found on the net. When and for how long he believed in golems I can't say, but it was probably toward the end of his career when his sanity was slowly being reduced by paranoia, and he believed that he had enemies everywhere.

No, he didn't. He often dismissed astrology as nothing more than "Medieval rubbish", and often privately mocked those Nazis like Himmler and Rosenberg especially who took it seriously. Goebbels did use Nostradamus largely as a propaganda tool, but so did the Allies for that matter.

I believe you misread me. I amended my previous statement to say Hess-astology and Hitler-Nostradamus. How seriously Hitler took it depended on what the Quatrains said about his future victory. If they predicted victory, then Hitler believed Nostradamus.

Hitler was an Si after all. The ISTJ in particular will take an interest in and discuss supernatural matters (or philosophical, or any other mystical/religious subject matter), usually if they might serve to benefit his cause. It must have some practical application. The curiosity of the ISTJ won't extend to acquiring knowledge for its own sake.

So I wouldn't try to claim that Hitler was a proponent of Nostradamus beyond some practical purpose. Yes, Goebbels used Nostradamus for propaganda. Yes, so did the allies and so have many, many others throughout the period of time after Nostradamus lived. And Goebbels wouldn't have used the Quatrains without Hitler's approval, but that in itself doesn't require Hitler's belief in them. Hitler simply latched on to anything that made his future look more promising.

That's questionable at best, since Nostradamus makes references to "Hister", which was the old name for the Danube. Of course John Hogue tries to twist this around by claiming Hitler was born on the Danube. However the Quatrains are often vague as to mean anything you want.

And Hitler wanted to believe. And so did millions of other Germans. Hitler's humble Austrian beginnings made his gullibility possible.

As an example, these days hardly anybody believes in fairies, but believe it or not the following picture was accepted as valid back in the good ole days by professional photographers:
http://s3.amazonaws.com/hoaxipedia/cot3small.jpg
This picture, from a serious of similar pictures created in 1920 England, was finally debunked in 1978 by famous magician and professional debunker James Randi.

Hitler famously believed his life was saved during a WWI battle by an occult presence whispering to him to move a few feet from where an enemy shell then landed.

No response?

 

[Mal12345]

Here's an interesting page on astrology in WWII Germany:
http://www.astrology.co.uk/news/worldwar2.htm

Its a stretch to say "Krafft became Hitler's astrologer" when they never actually met. But there is an important Nostradamus mention too. Sorry, no golems.

 

[Sniffles]

It's not to be found on the internet, so you won't have ready confirmation. Believe what you want. Not every fact that exists is found on the net. When and for how long he believed in golems I can't say, but it was probably toward the end of his career when his sanity was slowly being reduced by paranoia, and he believed that he had enemies everywhere.

So I take it you cannot name a source for this claim eh?

I believe you misread me. I amended my previous statement to say Hess-astology and Hitler-Nostradamus. How seriously Hitler took it depended on what the Quatrains said about his future victory. If they predicted victory, then Hitler believed Nostradamus.

I didn't misread you, I answered this quite forcefully that Hitler denounced this stuff as rubbish.

No response?

Actually I did respond. Even if true, it doesn't prove much - certainly not Hitler's belief in Nostradamus.