Eric B
ⒺⓉⒷ
- Joined
- Mar 29, 2008
- Messages
- 3,621
- MBTI Type
- INTP
- Enneagram
- 548
- Instinctual Variant
- sp/sx
Cognitive dynamics is explaining a lot of stuff I had noticed but could never really explain. And at the heart of John Beebe's archetype model is the use of fiction to represent the different archetypes. He uses stuff like Oz and other stories I have not thought or knew about enough to have analyzed. But I'm now seeing the archetypes (or complexes) in the forms of fiction I am more familiar with: cartoons (and some other TV shows).
The first Superfriends show was totally mellowed compared to later ones and the original DC comics and shows. Superman and Batman always used their fists alot, but in the 70's, all that had to go. So now they had to use their minds more. Batman was always about mind-work as well, but now even Superman and the others would fight villains (mostly misguided or "mad" scientist types) using mostly logical deduction. In retrospect, it came across as "preachy", as did much of the stuff from that period. They even had to call on special guest heroes to perform feats Superman could easily do himself on later shows.
So for me, the show appealed to a quite literally "heroic" Ti. Also, with a "childlike" Si nostalgia developing, I generally took on a preference for the original version of shows from childhood. Scooby was another one.
Later Superfriends incarnations kept the logical deduction, making it overall a great series, even with more super action restored to the franchise. Yet one change just really took something away from the series.
In this original version, the Superfriends had three "junior" members: Marvin, Wendy and Wonder Dog. After the one season, they would be replaced by the Wonder Twins: Zan, Jayna and space monkey Gleek. It's almost an embarrassment to confess that I like the first version better, which others SF fans often moan about. I knew from the beginning that the Wonder Twins were much more logical as Superfriends-in-training. They were from another planet (like Superman) and had actual super powers. Wendy, Marvin and Wonder Dog were normal earthlings who had no powers. I have always said, they were basically training to be more in the vein of Batman & Robin, as they had no real superpowers; only their Bat-gear and their brains. The kids were also obvious ripoffs of Shaggy, Scooby and Velma. But that's also something I liked about them. And it fit too, since those episodes were a bit more Scooby-like, again, since it was more mind-work than action. (Meanwhile, Zan, Jayna and Gleek were obvious ripoffs of the lesser known Jan, Jayce and Blip from the earlier Space Ghost series; even down to the names).
While both Marvin and Zan played similar roles as overconfident males who were often shown up by their female partners (probably "inflated" Puer figures, though not my puer, as I don't see any particular Si association with them), Zan clearly played a more inept, inferior role to Jayna, who was far more witty than Wendy. Not only did she have superior wit, but as everyone knows, she also had superior tranformational powers as well. Wendy was just more of a "parent" figure to Marvin. Jayna was a total foil for Zan.
Where Wendy was more frumpy in appearance, with the characteristic 70's curly hair, bell bottom slacks and the blouse-sweater combo, Jayna was totally sexy (curvy, shown off in the superhero tights) as well. These types of witty female figures who get the best of men always provoked some sort of envy.
Wendy would be closer to an anima Fe figure (she's most definitely an SFJ). She was more innocent about correcting Marvin, and better yet, in several episodes, she would cook a celebratory dinner or picnic for the entire Justice League. I always loved those episodes the most. Even made me prefer table dinners to buffets in my own family special gatherings back when I was around 10.
My favorite episode being "The Fantastic Frerps", about a guy calling himself "King Plasto" who tries to create a plastic kingdom built out of self-inflating plastic objects hatched out of eggs marked with the initials of the object inside. Created a baffling mystery for the Superfriends, as to where these things came from, what each initial stood for (they had to worry about it being something too big to fit in the room), and stopping them from being dropped all over the city. Another similar episode, "The GEEC", was about a computer created by a well meaning scientist, that goes haywire when a mouse gets inside of it. (They then get Plastic Man to get him out, in his only animated appearance before getting his own show).
Looking back now, in light of cognitive theory, I can clearly recognize a hero-anima dynamic in this. The heroes use all of their logical analysis and deduction (often with big words, especially from Batman & Robin) to save the day, and at the end, are rewarded by a dinner and fellowship in celebration by their young hostess.
I never knew why I liked all of this stuff so much, but Beebe's model explains it perfectly.
Once Wendy was gone, all of that was over. The Wonder Twins could do a lot more and even after being left behind by the others at first, would eventually join in, using their powers; but they were often more trouble than their forebears were, and were annoying with all of that bantering of theirs ("Spacey, Zan; real spacey" at one of his corny jokes, etc). That stupid monkey was the worse. A definite Se-Trickster figure, he would ruin brilliant plans with his childish horseplay (like turning on speakers or monitors informing the bad guys of their plans), though sometimes come in handy and save the day. It was kind of a relief when they produced the Justice-League vs Legion of Doom series omitting them.
Besides the monkey, my distaste was focused more on Jayna. I now recognize her as an Opposing Personality figure. I guess she sort of represents Te because of her ability to outwit the male in a man's world which in real life USA is Te dominated. Her type also seems to match the witty STJ women in my environment, and in pop culture. Like Alice on the Honeymooners, Thelma on Good Times, and sometimes Wilona also; the maid on the Jeffersons, that obnoxious little girl on What's Happening, and often the diner owner as well; Flo on Alice, Daisy Duke to a large extent, Mariette Hartley with James Garner on 70's Polaroid commercials, Debra on Raymond, and basically, today's Madea, who is sort of the embodiment of all those earlier women (at least the black ones).
These are all witty STJ females who get the last word over the men. They are basically logical, in an externally oriented sense, and use this in their wit against men.
I at first could not figure how oppositional Te could fit a feminine complex, but upon remembering all of these characters (plus, again, some people in real life), it all made sense.
Hence, in the Superfriends, I preferred the soft Wendy over the sharp Jayna, even though the latter was clearly more attractive. But shows like that were to me like escapes from frustrating stuff like sexuality and witty females who know how to flaunt it. So I preferred the older ones without being able to explain why. I feel a sort of tension whenever people or characters like that arre around.
I know the anima is said to be what we think will complete the soul, and represents the ideal other half. The truest representation of my anima, who has the looks to match the personality, is Flirtacia, on the Gulliver cartoon, which was recently running on Boomerang. However, sometimes getting someone so sweet and innocent like that (and then the mystery is gone; you've basically taken their innocence, you see all their bad sides, etc) then makes you long for the more seductive, sassy types. Hence, the thing of men having the sweet wife at home, and the sexy mistress. I do find the wittiness of ISTJ types sexy, though I know I wouldn't want to live with it, at least not when they are reay angry. Still, it is desired sometimes.
So perhaps a bit of the Opposing Personality also completes us along with the anima? After all; the OP also backs up the hero; filling in its blind spots. I guess I wish I could be them when I feel the need to outwit some power structure, to boost my own self-esteem, or something.
Still, it's so interesting how this stuff seems to fit experience and explain "silly" preferences liek that.
(This stuff I write looks so much shorter on Notepad, for some reason).
The first Superfriends show was totally mellowed compared to later ones and the original DC comics and shows. Superman and Batman always used their fists alot, but in the 70's, all that had to go. So now they had to use their minds more. Batman was always about mind-work as well, but now even Superman and the others would fight villains (mostly misguided or "mad" scientist types) using mostly logical deduction. In retrospect, it came across as "preachy", as did much of the stuff from that period. They even had to call on special guest heroes to perform feats Superman could easily do himself on later shows.
So for me, the show appealed to a quite literally "heroic" Ti. Also, with a "childlike" Si nostalgia developing, I generally took on a preference for the original version of shows from childhood. Scooby was another one.
Later Superfriends incarnations kept the logical deduction, making it overall a great series, even with more super action restored to the franchise. Yet one change just really took something away from the series.
In this original version, the Superfriends had three "junior" members: Marvin, Wendy and Wonder Dog. After the one season, they would be replaced by the Wonder Twins: Zan, Jayna and space monkey Gleek. It's almost an embarrassment to confess that I like the first version better, which others SF fans often moan about. I knew from the beginning that the Wonder Twins were much more logical as Superfriends-in-training. They were from another planet (like Superman) and had actual super powers. Wendy, Marvin and Wonder Dog were normal earthlings who had no powers. I have always said, they were basically training to be more in the vein of Batman & Robin, as they had no real superpowers; only their Bat-gear and their brains. The kids were also obvious ripoffs of Shaggy, Scooby and Velma. But that's also something I liked about them. And it fit too, since those episodes were a bit more Scooby-like, again, since it was more mind-work than action. (Meanwhile, Zan, Jayna and Gleek were obvious ripoffs of the lesser known Jan, Jayce and Blip from the earlier Space Ghost series; even down to the names).
While both Marvin and Zan played similar roles as overconfident males who were often shown up by their female partners (probably "inflated" Puer figures, though not my puer, as I don't see any particular Si association with them), Zan clearly played a more inept, inferior role to Jayna, who was far more witty than Wendy. Not only did she have superior wit, but as everyone knows, she also had superior tranformational powers as well. Wendy was just more of a "parent" figure to Marvin. Jayna was a total foil for Zan.
Where Wendy was more frumpy in appearance, with the characteristic 70's curly hair, bell bottom slacks and the blouse-sweater combo, Jayna was totally sexy (curvy, shown off in the superhero tights) as well. These types of witty female figures who get the best of men always provoked some sort of envy.
Wendy would be closer to an anima Fe figure (she's most definitely an SFJ). She was more innocent about correcting Marvin, and better yet, in several episodes, she would cook a celebratory dinner or picnic for the entire Justice League. I always loved those episodes the most. Even made me prefer table dinners to buffets in my own family special gatherings back when I was around 10.
My favorite episode being "The Fantastic Frerps", about a guy calling himself "King Plasto" who tries to create a plastic kingdom built out of self-inflating plastic objects hatched out of eggs marked with the initials of the object inside. Created a baffling mystery for the Superfriends, as to where these things came from, what each initial stood for (they had to worry about it being something too big to fit in the room), and stopping them from being dropped all over the city. Another similar episode, "The GEEC", was about a computer created by a well meaning scientist, that goes haywire when a mouse gets inside of it. (They then get Plastic Man to get him out, in his only animated appearance before getting his own show).
Looking back now, in light of cognitive theory, I can clearly recognize a hero-anima dynamic in this. The heroes use all of their logical analysis and deduction (often with big words, especially from Batman & Robin) to save the day, and at the end, are rewarded by a dinner and fellowship in celebration by their young hostess.
I never knew why I liked all of this stuff so much, but Beebe's model explains it perfectly.
Once Wendy was gone, all of that was over. The Wonder Twins could do a lot more and even after being left behind by the others at first, would eventually join in, using their powers; but they were often more trouble than their forebears were, and were annoying with all of that bantering of theirs ("Spacey, Zan; real spacey" at one of his corny jokes, etc). That stupid monkey was the worse. A definite Se-Trickster figure, he would ruin brilliant plans with his childish horseplay (like turning on speakers or monitors informing the bad guys of their plans), though sometimes come in handy and save the day. It was kind of a relief when they produced the Justice-League vs Legion of Doom series omitting them.
Besides the monkey, my distaste was focused more on Jayna. I now recognize her as an Opposing Personality figure. I guess she sort of represents Te because of her ability to outwit the male in a man's world which in real life USA is Te dominated. Her type also seems to match the witty STJ women in my environment, and in pop culture. Like Alice on the Honeymooners, Thelma on Good Times, and sometimes Wilona also; the maid on the Jeffersons, that obnoxious little girl on What's Happening, and often the diner owner as well; Flo on Alice, Daisy Duke to a large extent, Mariette Hartley with James Garner on 70's Polaroid commercials, Debra on Raymond, and basically, today's Madea, who is sort of the embodiment of all those earlier women (at least the black ones).
These are all witty STJ females who get the last word over the men. They are basically logical, in an externally oriented sense, and use this in their wit against men.
I at first could not figure how oppositional Te could fit a feminine complex, but upon remembering all of these characters (plus, again, some people in real life), it all made sense.
Hence, in the Superfriends, I preferred the soft Wendy over the sharp Jayna, even though the latter was clearly more attractive. But shows like that were to me like escapes from frustrating stuff like sexuality and witty females who know how to flaunt it. So I preferred the older ones without being able to explain why. I feel a sort of tension whenever people or characters like that arre around.
I know the anima is said to be what we think will complete the soul, and represents the ideal other half. The truest representation of my anima, who has the looks to match the personality, is Flirtacia, on the Gulliver cartoon, which was recently running on Boomerang. However, sometimes getting someone so sweet and innocent like that (and then the mystery is gone; you've basically taken their innocence, you see all their bad sides, etc) then makes you long for the more seductive, sassy types. Hence, the thing of men having the sweet wife at home, and the sexy mistress. I do find the wittiness of ISTJ types sexy, though I know I wouldn't want to live with it, at least not when they are reay angry. Still, it is desired sometimes.
So perhaps a bit of the Opposing Personality also completes us along with the anima? After all; the OP also backs up the hero; filling in its blind spots. I guess I wish I could be them when I feel the need to outwit some power structure, to boost my own self-esteem, or something.
Still, it's so interesting how this stuff seems to fit experience and explain "silly" preferences liek that.
(This stuff I write looks so much shorter on Notepad, for some reason).
