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That 70's show

the state i am in

Active member
Joined
Feb 12, 2009
Messages
2,475
MBTI Type
infj
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
There is such a thing as a very direct "In Charge" ESFJ. I personally know a couple ESFJs like this. ;) More direct and "In Charge" than me (supposedly a direct and "In Charge" type"). We don't have to read too much into the interaction styles.

agreed, it's just loose temperament associations. the enneagram instinctual subtypes, dominant types and wings, and mb all together give a much more sophisticated accounting of differences.

temperament theory does pose some useful questions, but that's about it. it does a terrible job answering them.
 

Venom

Babylon Candle
Joined
Feb 10, 2008
Messages
2,126
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
1w9
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
temperament theory does pose some useful questions, but that's about it. it does a terrible job answering them.

perhaps we can start a different thread...but how did you arrive at the conclusion that it does a terrible job, as opposed to a better job? :huh:
 

Mr. Sherlock Holmes

Consulting Detective
Joined
Aug 10, 2010
Messages
1,450
MBTI Type
JiNe
Enneagram
5W4
The communication styles aren't always definite. The only thing in MBTI that is is the functions. The rest is generalisations that will correlate most of the time, but not always. Jackie is an Fe dom. An arrogant, ignorant Fe dom.

Eric: IXFP
Kelso: ESFP
Jackie: ESFJ
Fez: INFP
Hyde: ISTP
Donna: XXTJ
Kitty: ESFJ
Red: ESTJ
 

You

New member
Joined
Jun 8, 2010
Messages
2,124
MBTI Type
entp
Enneagram
7w8
yes, there has been!

I remember this was the general consensus (which i still agree with)....

first:
IN CHARGE: ESTP ENTJ ENFJ ESTJ
GET THINGS GOING: ESFP ENTP ENFP ESFJ
CHART THE COURSE: ISTP INTJ INFJ ISTJ
BEHIND THE SCENES: ISFP INTP INFP ISFJ

anyways...

Eric: ISFP 100%
JD scrubs is NFP, Eric is SFP. Both have "strange" thoughts. JD's N is fantasy and 'trips' to exterior possibilities (Ne). Erics N is more related to his truer interpretation of the other characters (Ni). Eric is BEHIND THE SCENES (which leaves INTP, INFP, ISFP and ISFJ...ISFP fits the best because he is pragmatic over affiliative).

Donna: ESTP 100%
Donna is IN CHARGE rather than GET THINGS GOING. She is directing over informing and motive over structure. She is pragmatic over affiliative. This all points to ESTP over ENTP or any F.

Hyde: ISTP 100%
Hyde is CHART THE COURSE rather than GET THINGS GOING. He is a responder rather than initiator, and a director rather than an informer. He is also motive over structure. These all point to ISTP over ENTP. The final point is his tertiary Ni use for the cliche "the man! the corporations!" rantings.....

Kelso: ENFP 120%
Kelso is affiliative over pragmatic. His vices and creativity are in his ridiculous ideas and perceptions (often of himself). He is identical to a real life ENFP friend I have (tests ENFP and everything). If you think for a second his intelligence disqualifies him from being an N, then you have completely misinterpreted MBTI in a rather elitist fashion.

Jacky: ESTJ 120%
Jacky is IN CHARGE, rather than GET THINGS GOING. She is directing. SFJ Fe is not directing (NFJ Fe is directing). She is the opposite of Fez, and is rather attracted to him (to her own surprise).

Fez: ISFP 90% (N/S)
Fez is BEHIND THE SCENES, not GET THINGS GOING. Fez is the total opposite of Jacky. His creativity and vices are sensual. Jacky secretly loves fez (also makes sense).

Kitty: ISFJ 90% (E/I)
She is not GET THINGS GOING, but more passive aggressive and BEHIND THE SCENES

Red: ESTJ 97.25% (E/I)
The extroverted version of hank hill. He is IN CHARGE (ISTJ is chart the course). He is initiating and directing. He is structure over motive. He is affiliative over pragmatic in his pursuit to maintain group tradition and dynamics.

less sure:
Laurie: ESTP 75% (T/F)
Leo: ISFP 75% (E/I)

The %'s refer to confidence to the written type (with the most disputed in parenthesis).

After a review of the show, I'd have to agree with most of the points that you made. However, there are a few discrepancies in your support. Since you are soley basing your arguement on communication style, blind-spots in your educated opinion become obvious. In the way that you've applied the communication typing it leaves room for anybody who is "In-Charge" or "Direct", or simply confident for that matter, to be re-interperted as what fits their mold, instead of exactly how they function and interpert information. All the cognitive responses, which may or may not be externalize (for observation), are thrown out the window in replacement for quick-fits in archetypes. Not that MBTI doesn't often lend itself to that hunk of shit. However, this is a show. Most of us are fiddling with typing in hopes of understanding interpersonal relations, how we work in groupings, and/or understanding of ourselves. As we've seen in this thread so far, there are plenty of people who have recognize that these quick-fits don't work when catergorized to one discipline. It just isn't enough. Why use one form? Didn't Bruce Lee teach us anything? Use everything that works, for typing, or fighting. That means throw in the knowledge you've gained from Ennegram, Jungian theorist, and all relatable content if applicable and rational. Don't limit yourself to Communication Styles, otherwise you won't be able to understand the difference in Introversion and Extroversion. So, lets define these words real quick.

In the way that you've...(to be edited. I had to run to the store)


  • Eric: ISFP
  • Hyde: ISTP
  • Kelso: ESFP
  • Fez: INFP
  • Jackie: ESFJ
  • Donna: ESTP
  • Red: ISTJ
  • Kitty: ISFJ
 

SpacemanSpiff

New member
Joined
Jul 5, 2011
Messages
19
MBTI Type
INFP
Why ESFP for Kelso over ENFP? I have a few tested ENFP friends, and Kelso seems to me to be instantly recognizable as one of them.
 

kcantens

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Joined
Jan 1, 2012
Messages
1
MBTI Type
infp
Enneagram
4
I strongly disagree with the categoriztion of eric as an isfp. I would say he behaves more like an isfj or maybe istj.
Think of the episode where he interviews for a position at the fast food joint. He gave all the right answers, and he was the only one selected because of his willingness to conform to the rules. He also is very unwilling to quit the job.
At home he is very fearful and respectful of his parents authority.
He never skips school, etc
kitty is blatantly NOT an isfj. More likely a enfp (she detests the lack of sponteneity in her relationship (P), she's probably the most active, sprightly and talkative person on the show (E), she's incredibly adept at dealing with all the other characters in the show, much more than anyone else indicating a very strong preference for N. F because of her caring and kind attitude.
Nothing about kelso would indicate N or S. he is undeveloped in this respect.
Fez is a non-charater.
Hyde is probably an intp. His preferences for I and P aren't too great though, so it can be argued further. He's very intellectual and creative so a definite N.
 

Speed Gavroche

Whisky Old & Women Young
Joined
Oct 20, 2008
Messages
5,152
MBTI Type
EsTP
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6w7
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Jacky is a 2w3 Sp/Sx. Either ESTP or ESTJ.
 

Thunderbringer

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Jul 6, 2010
Messages
274
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
6w7
Jackie, a T type? She comes across, to me, as an F foil (romantic and affectionate) to Donna's T (headstrong and blunt)...

It's funny, but I can see her as both a T and an F. My first thought was that she was a T because she's selfish and self-centered (cares about her own goals) which isn't really what being an F is all about (consideration for others, more ethical than logical, etc). But at the same time the way she fawns over her lovers isn't really how I'd see a T work in relationships. I think ESTJ 2w3 fits her (self centered from the T and romantic from the 2), but then again, I barely remember that show so I could definitely be wrong.
 

Viridian

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Dec 30, 2010
Messages
3,036
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IsFJ
It's funny, but I can see her as both a T and an F. My first thought was that she was a T because she's selfish and self-centered (cares about her own goals) which isn't really what being an F is all about (consideration for others, more ethical than logical, etc). But at the same time the way she fawns over her lovers isn't really how I'd see a T work in relationships. I think ESTJ 2w3 fits her (self centered from the T and romantic from the 2), but then again, I barely remember that show so I could definitely be wrong.

FJs can be incredibly selfish. And they can be very sneaky in that aspect. Especially when they're unhealthy Twos. ;)
 

Speed Gavroche

Whisky Old & Women Young
Joined
Oct 20, 2008
Messages
5,152
MBTI Type
EsTP
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6w7
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Jackie, a T type? She comes across, to me, as an F foil (romantic and affectionate) to Donna's T (headstrong and blunt)...

ESTP girls are romantic and affectionate too when they have Sx in their stacking. Mila Kunis is an ESTP herself (6w7 Sp/Sx) and can be considered as romantic and affectionate too, but she's ultimately a thinker. Being F is not about being romantic and affecrtionate, many T are, being F is about taking decisions based on subjectivity, emotions and ethic, Jackie is objective and utilitarian and does'nt follow any ethic in particulary, when she has to take decision, she's headstrong too, but less blunt because she's manipulative, like many ESTPs.
 

Viridian

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Dec 30, 2010
Messages
3,036
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ESTP girls are romantic and affectionate too when they have Sx in their stacking. Mila Kunis is an ESTP herself (6w7 Sp/Sx) and can be considered as romantic and affectionate too, but she's ultimately a thinker. Being F is not about being romantic and affecrtionate, many T are, being F is about taking decisions based on subjectivity, emotions and ethic, Jackie is objective and utilitarian and does'nt follow any ethic in particulary, when she has to take decision, she's headstrong too, but less blunt because she's manipulative, like many ESTPs.

Hmmm... From that angle, I could see ESTP. I'm divided about it... :thinking:
 

skylights

i love
Joined
Jul 6, 2010
Messages
7,756
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
6w7
Instinctual Variant
so/sx
eric ISFP 9w1 6w7 (thank you viridian)
moral and sensitive; sarcastic and witty; loyal and stubborn.

donna ENFJ 8w9
individualistic and headstrong; feminist and idealistic; over-confident and dismissive.

hyde INTP 9w8
dry and logical; rebellious and antiauthoritarian; cynical and blunt.
i see why people are saying E but he comes off more to me as a Ti dom than Ne.

kelso ENFP 7w6
warm-hearted and fun; enthusiastic and spontaneous; distracted and gullible.
way too head in the clouds to be a Se dominant.

fez ESFP
warm and sensual; fluid and entertaining; dramatic and endearing.
i am not sure of his enneatype. 4w3? 2w3? 7w6?

jackie ESFJ 3w2
social and practical; advising and directing; garrulous and affiliative.
jackie's groundedness comes from J, not from T. she is not objective. her main motive is to attract the attention and praise of other people.

kitty ENFP 2w3
protective and doting; sociable and gathering; feisty and excitable.
extraverted and a Feeler, but not nearly practical enough to be a J.

red ISTJ 6w5
practical and blunt; traditionalist and directive; grumpy and deadpan.


Caligula said:
Has anyone else noticed how often main characters tend to be ISFP? I wonder why that is. A friend of mine suggested it was because many writers tended to be, I think it is because it is one of the most fluid types. It's easier to make a main character "go along with the story" than to have one who is out there creating it. Just my thought process though, could easily be wrong.

yes. i think it's the combination of Fi, which allows the main character to be the moral director (plus easier to have a Feeler character as the bridge to the audience); introversion, which allows him/her to spend more Judging time in their head; and Se, which allows them to actively move through the work, not spending much of their Perceiving time in their heads. essentially they're the perfect "guide" character, in addition to being easily relatable.


interesting to note the most "masculine" characters - red and hyde - are both IxTxs. donna and eric, the "parents" of the kids' group, share Se/Ni, but they clash between eric's idealistic FP and donna's action-oriented FJ. kelso and fez, both of whom provide a "pure" form of comic relief (untainted by political issues (hyde) or ethics (eric)) - are ExFPs. jackie and donna, both ExFJ, clash continually given donna's self-protective exterior (e8) and jackie's egotism (e3), but both also serve to create action in the series, as both carry momentum, in contrast to the Ps. i have a soft spot for kitty, who i strongly suspect is ENFP playing a better-suited-to-ESFJ role - but does a pretty good job of it thanks to her e2w3. still, you see her get all excited in that crazy ExxP way but without real outlet besides drinking, and you can see her glee when she does something a little mischievous.

i always liked this show.
 
Last edited:

Viridian

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Dec 30, 2010
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IsFJ
eric ISFP 9w1
moral and sensitive; sarcastic and witty; loyal and stubborn.

I would peg him as more like a 6w7, with all the neuroses that come with it... Although 9w1 isn't implausible.
 

Savage Idealist

Permabanned
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Aug 17, 2010
Messages
2,841
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
6w7
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
eric ISFP 9w1
moral and sensitive; sarcastic and witty; loyal and stubborn.

donna ENFJ 8w9
individualistic and headstrong; feminist and idealistic; over-confident and dismissive.

hyde INTP 9w8
dry and logical; rebellious and antiauthoritarian; cynical and blunt.
i see why people are saying E but he comes off more to me as a Ti dom than Ne.

kelso ENFP 7w6
warm-hearted and fun; enthusiastic and spontaneous; distracted and gullible.
way too head in the clouds to be a Se dominant.

fez ESFP
warm and sensual; fluid and entertaining; dramatic and endearing.
i am not sure of his enneatype. 4w3? 2w3?

jackie ESFJ 3w2
social and practical; advising and directing; garrulous and affiliative.
jackie's groundedness comes from J, not from T. she is not objective. her main motive is to attract the attention and praise of other people.

kitty ENFP 2w3
protective and doting; sociable and gathering; feisty and excitable.
extraverted and a Feeler, but not nearly practical enough to be a J.

red ISTJ 6w5
practical and blunt; traditionalist and directive; grumpy and deadpan.

This seems like a good overall typing of the characters :yes:

However, I disagree with Hyde as 9w8; "rebellious and antiauthoritarian; cynical and blunt" are more fitting to a 6, probably counter-phobic 6, which seems to fit with Hyde's personality. I think he's cp6w5.
 
G

Ginkgo

Guest
It's funny, but I can see her as both a T and an F. My first thought was that she was a T because she's selfish and self-centered (cares about her own goals) which isn't really what being an F is all about (consideration for others, more ethical than logical, etc). But at the same time the way she fawns over her lovers isn't really how I'd see a T work in relationships. I think ESTJ 2w3 fits her (self centered from the T and romantic from the 2), but then again, I barely remember that show so I could definitely be wrong.

I've known of extremely romantic, puppy dogs shitting rainbows ESTJs. Don't be so quick to write it off as a possibility.
 

skylights

i love
Joined
Jul 6, 2010
Messages
7,756
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
6w7
Instinctual Variant
so/sx
I would peg him as more like a 6w7, with all the neuroses that come with it... Although 9w1 isn't implausible.

This seems like a good overall typing of the characters :yes:

However, I disagree with Hyde as 9w8; "rebellious and antiauthoritarian; cynical and blunt" are more fitting to a 6, probably counter-phobic 6, which seems to fit with Hyde's personality. I think he's cp6w5.

ah these may be true. i have a hard time separating "stoner" from 9 :rofl1:
 

Viridian

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Dec 30, 2010
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3,036
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IsFJ
This seems like a good overall typing of the characters :yes:

However, I disagree with Hyde as 9w8; "rebellious and antiauthoritarian; cynical and blunt" are more fitting to a 6, probably counter-phobic 6, which seems to fit with Hyde's personality. I think he's cp6w5.

I don't quite see it... Hyde has none of the Six's anxiety or loyalty issues - his anti-authoritarianism (and his snark in general) is pretty... nonchalant.
 

Savage Idealist

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Messages
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ENFP
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6w7
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sp/so
I don't quite see it... Hyde has none of the Six's anxiety or loyalty issues - his anti-authoritarianism (and his snark in general) is pretty... nonchalant.

If he is 6 then he's definitely counter-phobic; at least maybe in the earlier episodes.
 
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