That 70's show

[TheEmeraldCanopy]

Could Donna be ENFJ? (Not really sure what ENFJs look like)

 

[Venom]

I think there might already be a thread for this.

yes, there has been!

I remember this was the general consensus (which i still agree with)....

first:
IN CHARGE: ESTP ENTJ ENFJ ESTJ
GET THINGS GOING: ESFP ENTP ENFP ESFJ
CHART THE COURSE: ISTP INTJ INFJ ISTJ
BEHIND THE SCENES: ISFP INTP INFP ISFJ

anyways...

Eric: ISFP 100%
JD scrubs is NFP, Eric is SFP. Both have "strange" thoughts. JD's N is fantasy and 'trips' to exterior possibilities (Ne). Erics N is more related to his truer interpretation of the other characters (Ni). Eric is BEHIND THE SCENES (which leaves INTP, INFP, ISFP and ISFJ...ISFP fits the best because he is pragmatic over affiliative).

Donna: ESTP 100%
Donna is IN CHARGE rather than GET THINGS GOING. She is directing over informing and motive over structure. She is pragmatic over affiliative. This all points to ESTP over ENTP or any F.

Hyde: ISTP 100%
Hyde is CHART THE COURSE rather than GET THINGS GOING. He is a responder rather than initiator, and a director rather than an informer. He is also motive over structure. These all point to ISTP over ENTP. The final point is his tertiary Ni use for the cliche "the man! the corporations!" rantings.....

Kelso: ENFP 120%
Kelso is affiliative over pragmatic. His vices and creativity are in his ridiculous ideas and perceptions (often of himself). He is identical to a real life ENFP friend I have (tests ENFP and everything). If you think for a second his intelligence disqualifies him from being an N, then you have completely misinterpreted MBTI in a rather elitist fashion.

Jacky: ESTJ 120%
Jacky is IN CHARGE, rather than GET THINGS GOING. She is directing. SFJ Fe is not directing (NFJ Fe is directing). She is the opposite of Fez, and is rather attracted to him (to her own surprise).

Fez: ISFP 90% (N/S)
Fez is BEHIND THE SCENES, not GET THINGS GOING. Fez is the total opposite of Jacky. His creativity and vices are sensual. Jacky secretly loves fez (also makes sense).

Kitty: ISFJ 90% (E/I)
She is not GET THINGS GOING, but more passive aggressive and BEHIND THE SCENES

Red: ESTJ 97.25% (E/I)
The extroverted version of hank hill. He is IN CHARGE (ISTJ is chart the course). He is initiating and directing. He is structure over motive. He is affiliative over pragmatic in his pursuit to maintain group tradition and dynamics.

less sure:
Laurie: ESTP 75% (T/F)
Leo: ISFP 75% (E/I)

The %'s refer to confidence to the written type (with the most disputed in parenthesis).

 

[Caligula]

yes, there has been!

I remember this was the general consensus (which i still agree with)....

first:
IN CHARGE: ESTP ENTJ ENFJ ESTJ
GET THINGS GOING: ESFP ENTP ENFP ESFJ
CHART THE COURSE: ISTP INTJ INFJ ISTJ
BEHIND THE SCENES: ISFP INTP INFP ISFJ

anyways...

Eric: ISFP 100%
JD scrubs is NFP, Eric is SFP. Both have "strange" thoughts. JD's N is fantasy and 'trips' to exterior possibilities (Ne). Erics N is more related to his truer interpretation of the other characters (Ni). Eric is BEHIND THE SCENES (which leaves INTP, INFP, ISFP and ISFJ...ISFP fits the best because he is pragmatic over affiliative).

Donna: ESTP 100%
Donna is IN CHARGE rather than GET THINGS GOING. She is directing over informing and motive over structure. She is pragmatic over affiliative. This all points to ESTP over ENTP or any F.

Hyde: ISTP 100%
Hyde is CHART THE COURSE rather than GET THINGS GOING. He is a responder rather than initiator, and a director rather than an informer. He is also motive over structure. These all point to ISTP over ENTP. The final point is his tertiary Ni use for the cliche "the man! the corporations!" rantings.....

Kelso: ENFP 120%
Kelso is affiliative over pragmatic. His vices and creativity are in his ridiculous ideas and perceptions (often of himself). He is identical to a real life ENFP friend I have (tests ENFP and everything). If you think for a second his intelligence disqualifies him from being an N, then you have completely misinterpreted MBTI in a rather elitist fashion.

Jacky: ESTJ 120%
Jacky is IN CHARGE, rather than GET THINGS GOING. She is directing. SFJ Fe is not directing (NFJ Fe is directing). She is the opposite of Fez, and is rather attracted to him (to her own surprise).

Fez: ISFP 90% (N/S)
Fez is BEHIND THE SCENES, not GET THINGS GOING. Fez is the total opposite of Jacky. His creativity and vices are sensual. Jacky secretly loves fez (also makes sense).

Kitty: ISFJ 90% (E/I)
She is not GET THINGS GOING, but more passive aggressive and BEHIND THE SCENES

Red: ESTJ 97.25% (E/I)
The extroverted version of hank hill. He is IN CHARGE (ISTJ is chart the course). He is initiating and directing. He is structure over motive. He is affiliative over pragmatic in his pursuit to maintain group tradition and dynamics.

less sure:
Laurie: ESTP 75% (T/F)
Leo: ISFP 75% (E/I)

The %'s refer to confidence to the written type (with the most disputed in parenthesis).

The amount of effort...I love you.

also 100% agreed.

Has anyone else noticed how often main characters tend to be ISFP? I wonder why that is. A friend of mine suggested it was because many writers tended to be, I think it is because it is one of the most fluid types. It's easier to make a main character "go along with the story" than to have one who is out there creating it. Just my thought process though, could easily be wrong.

 

[JustHer]

Donna as an ESTP? no way dude.

 

[boondocked]

Jackie a T? Since when did she make decisions based on anything but her feelings? I get what you're saying with the interaction styles and the direction of her functions and all, but she's so romantic and...pink. Also, I tend to think of her as Hyde's true opposite, not Fez's. She was always pushing for mush from Hyde...with Fez, she finally got it (not to say I didn't think Hyde and Jackie were good for each other...I did).

The only reason I would have said S for Kelso instead of N is because he fit the SP profile in "Please Understand Me" much better than the NF temperment. He always seemed more about having fun than discovering himself and his unique place on the earth. However, I can still see ENFP for Kelso on the very basis of his spaced out ideas.

 

[Snuggletron]

I believe Jackie is an F

I believe Donna is a J

otherwise I agree with Babylonian Candle 97.25%

btw, I would have said Red was ISTJ but I think his Te stands out in front farther than his Si, but the two are pretty close... Red is a traditional meat and potatoes kind of guy. I remember one skit where they had Red daydream the Foremans in a post WWII platonic family scenario mock up which screamed Si/Te for Red.

 

[Thalassa]

Red: ESTJ 97.25% (E/I)
The extroverted version of hank hill. He is IN CHARGE (ISTJ is chart the course). He is initiating and directing. He is structure over motive. He is affiliative over pragmatic in his pursuit to maintain group tradition and dynamics.

Being in charge of your family does not make you an ESTJ. My dad growing up was most definitely NOT an extrovert, very reserved, not people-oriented, most certainly an ISTJ, and he was very very good at being in charge at home.

 

[Valuable_Money]

Yes, quite epic.

Actually I think we're all mostly agreed on ENTP. Out of curiousity, do you take this as a compliment to your type?

The only characters I take as a compliment to my type are House and the Joker just because people debate so much about their type(if that makes sense(I dont think that makes sense[oh well]))
Mabye if this thread reachs +30 pages of Hyde INTP vs ENTP Ill take an interest in it.

 

[Venom]

yes, there has been!

I remember this was the general consensus (which i still agree with)....

first:
IN CHARGE: ESTP ENTJ ENFJ ESTJ
GET THINGS GOING: ESFP ENTP ENFP ESFJ
CHART THE COURSE: ISTP INTJ INFJ ISTJ
BEHIND THE SCENES: ISFP INTP INFP ISFJ

anyways...

Eric: ISFP 100%
JD scrubs is NFP, Eric is SFP. Both have "strange" thoughts. JD's N is fantasy and 'trips' to exterior possibilities (Ne). Erics N is more related to his truer interpretation of the other characters (Ni). Eric is BEHIND THE SCENES (which leaves INTP, INFP, ISFP and ISFJ...ISFP fits the best because he is pragmatic over affiliative).

Donna: ESTP 100%
Donna is IN CHARGE rather than GET THINGS GOING. She is directing over informing and motive over structure. She is pragmatic over affiliative. This all points to ESTP over ENTP or any F.

Hyde: ISTP 100%
Hyde is CHART THE COURSE rather than GET THINGS GOING. He is a responder rather than initiator, and a director rather than an informer. He is also motive over structure. These all point to ISTP over ENTP. The final point is his tertiary Ni use for the cliche "the man! the corporations!" rantings.....

Kelso: ENFP 120%
Kelso is affiliative over pragmatic. His vices and creativity are in his ridiculous ideas and perceptions (often of himself). He is identical to a real life ENFP friend I have (tests ENFP and everything). If you think for a second his intelligence disqualifies him from being an N, then you have completely misinterpreted MBTI in a rather elitist fashion.

Jacky: ESTJ 120%
Jacky is IN CHARGE, rather than GET THINGS GOING. She is directing. SFJ Fe is not directing (NFJ Fe is directing). She is the opposite of Fez, and is rather attracted to him (to her own surprise).

Fez: ISFP 90% (N/S)
Fez is BEHIND THE SCENES, not GET THINGS GOING. Fez is the total opposite of Jacky. His creativity and vices are sensual. Jacky secretly loves fez (also makes sense).

Kitty: ISFJ 90% (E/I)
She is not GET THINGS GOING, but more passive aggressive and BEHIND THE SCENES

Red: ESTJ 97.25% (E/I)
The extroverted version of hank hill. He is IN CHARGE (ISTJ is chart the course). He is initiating and directing. He is structure over motive. He is affiliative over pragmatic in his pursuit to maintain group tradition and dynamics.

less sure:
Laurie: ESTP 75% (T/F)
Leo: ISFP 75% (E/I)

The %'s refer to confidence to the written type (with the most disputed in parenthesis).

Jackie a T? Since when did she make decisions based on anything but her feelings? I get what you're saying with the interaction styles and the direction of her functions and all, but she's so romantic and...pink. Also, I tend to think of her as Hyde's true opposite, not Fez's. She was always pushing for mush from Hyde...with Fez, she finally got it (not to say I didn't think Hyde and Jackie were good for each other...I did).

The only reason I would have said S for Kelso instead of N is because he fit the SP profile in "Please Understand Me" much better than the NF temperment. He always seemed more about having fun than discovering himself and his unique place on the earth. However, I can still see ENFP for Kelso on the very basis of his spaced out ideas.

I purposely didnt include jacky's emotional issues. They arent related to this method of typing (the multiple models system). Here are some facts:
--Jackie is directing
--The only directing Fs are NFJs
--Jackie is In-Charge (directing and initiating) and is not the ENFJ.
--EXTJs can be rather into harboring mushiness under their hard shells (just witness it on this site!).
--Te is almost by definition more tied to desires (and therefore emotion driven) than Ti. Te users can appear to run on emotion.
--Jacke and Hyde are opposites (Te/Ti). They are a different kind of opposites than jacky and fez. I would say that ESTJ is more emotional than ISTP.
--ESTJ still fits best based on interaction styles.

Im glad you agree on Kelso.

I believe Donna is a J

Donna as an ESTP? no way dude.

I believe that both of you are not in favor of ESTP because of this J issue?
Here are some quick tenets of the multiple models idea of typing:

1. no function exists in a vacuum: Te can look like Se+Ti, Ni can look like Ne+Ti ad infinitum.

2. unless you are typing yourself, there is almost no way to tell the difference between a pure function or the near identical in appearance combination of other functions

3. Typing other people requires a combination of interaction styles and temperament.

So. Donna as ESTP:
--ESTPs are DIRECTING, like some of the Js.
--Donna is PRAGMATIC over AFFILIATIVE (NT/SP over NF/SJ)
--Donna is MOTIVE over STRUCTURE (SP over NT)

There is nothing structure about donna at all! There isnt a hint of NT in her. SJ structure and NT structure are very different, but they are both systems oriented. Donna is not one of those people (should clear up the "Donna is ENTP" people). The J qualities you guys are identifying with is her IN-CHARGEness. ESTPs have a propensity to direct and marshal people around (I should know, I live with one ).

Being in charge of your family does not make you an ESTJ. My dad growing up was most definitely NOT an extrovert, very reserved, not people-oriented, most certainly an ISTJ, and he was very very good at being in charge at home.

Marm.........

1. Being In-Charge of an activity, event, organization or family is not the same thing as what the In-Charge interaction style refers to.

2. You can be an ENFP CEO, but you will still be more likely to identify with the GET THINGS GOING interaction style of initiating and informing because thats just how ENFPs are (idea generation and getting people excited about something), even when they are in charge of a company.

3. The ESTJ is directing and initiating. The ISTJ is directing and responding. The ESTJ is IN CHARGE and the ISTJ is CHART THE COURSE. They can both be CEO's, heads of a family and president of the USA. However, they both wont identify with the IN CHARGE interaction style, because the ISTJ is RESPONDING, while the ESTJ is INITIATING.

Im not making a politically incorrect remark about ISTJs inability to be in charge of things, because, to be honest, sometimes there are "things" that are better "run" by CHART THE COURSE people (INFJ, ISTJ, ISTP, INTJ).

4. As you point out, your dad was not an extrovert and reserved. Red seems to be initiating.



I know it sounds like im talking down on people, but I really feel strongly about this method of typing. Se+Ti will always be hard to differentiate with Te when not typing yourself. For typing from afar, the multiple models method seems to be the only shot in the dark that takes the appearance similarities into account.

 

[Benny]

^^^

You are right.

 

[heart]

Eric: INFP (the only N in the cast btw)
Donna: ESTP
Hyde: ISTP
Kelso: ESFP
Jacky: ESTJ (She does her homework on Sat night)
Fez: ISFP
Kitty: ISFJ
Red: ISTJ


BTW, JD on Scrubs is stereotypical male INFJ.

 

[Valuable_Money]

BTW, JD on Scrubs is stereotypical male INFJ.

JD is xNFP

 

[Thalassa]

Marm.........

Ok, don't you dare make this face at me because your typing skills are wack - this has been proven repeatedly by you saying things like "ENFPs have both really high Ne and Ni"

1. Being In-Charge of an activity, event, organization or family is not the same thing as what the In-Charge interaction style refers to.

2. You can be an ENFP CEO, but you will still be more likely to identify with the GET THINGS GOING interaction style of initiating and informing because thats just how ENFPs are (idea generation and getting people excited about something), even when they are in charge of a company.

3. The ESTJ is directing and initiating. The ISTJ is directing and responding. The ESTJ is IN CHARGE and the ISTJ is CHART THE COURSE. They can both be CEO's, heads of a family and president of the USA. However, they both wont identify with the IN CHARGE interaction style, because the ISTJ is RESPONDING, while the ESTJ is INITIATING.

Im not making a politically incorrect remark about ISTJs inability to be in charge of things, because, to be honest, sometimes there are "things" that are better "run" by CHART THE COURSE people (INFJ, ISTJ, ISTP, INTJ).

4. As you point out, your dad was not an extrovert and reserved. Red seems to be initiating.

An ISTJ can be very in touch with Te, just like an ENFP can be very in touch with Fi.

My dad was a bossy control freak. He was capable of making people frightened. Someone being introverted doesn't ALWAYS mean they are responding. Red reminds me a lot of my dad.

 

[Queen Kat]

Eric: INFP
Donna: INFJ, just a very social one
Hyde: ISTP or ENTP (can't imagine him being INTP or ESTP)
Kelso: ESFP
Jacky: ESFJ with weak Fe
Fez: ESFP (always talking about his needs, obsession with candy, that's more Se than Ne, his Fi is less dominant, so that's why I made him ES)
Kitty: ESFJ
Red: ISTJ

 

[Little Linguist]

Not to be argumentative, but is it possible for an ESFJ to have a weak Fe? Wouldn't she need to be an ISFJ with a weak Fe?

 

[Queen Kat]

Not to be argumentative, but is it possible for an ESFJ to have a weak Fe? Wouldn't she need to be an ISFJ with a weak Fe?

Well, the ESJ part was just too obvious with Jackie. Then of course I had to choose between T and F and I felt like she possed Fe nor Te. So I watched the way she behaved and she was too sensitive to be T.

 

[Little Linguist]

Stupid question: Why can't ESTJs be sensitive?

(Rhetorical question meaning I thought they could be, especially females).

 

[Queen Kat]

Stupid question: Why can't ESTJs be sensitive?

(Rhetorical question meaning I thought they could be, especially females).

My meant: TOO sensitive.

 

[Venom]

Eric: INFP
Donna: INFJ, just a very social one
Hyde: ISTP or ENTP (can't imagine him being INTP or ESTP)
Kelso: ESFP
Jacky: ESFJ with weak Fe
Fez: ESFP (always talking about his needs, obsession with candy, that's more Se than Ne, his Fi is less dominant, so that's why I made him ES)
Kitty: ESFJ
Red: ISTJ

Ugh. All my posting has gone to waste lol. Hyde is not a Get Things Going person! Kelso's ridiculousness has to do with his ideas and perceptions of himself! Fez is behind the scenes! Donna and Eric...I dont even want to go there, cuz ive already had this discussion :steam:

The main problem is that people are just "vibing" the characters. The difference between ESFJ and ESTJ has NOTHING to do with being sensitive. It has to do with directing vs informing. Jackie is directing all the way!

 

[Glycerine]

There is such a thing as a very direct "In Charge" ESFJ. I personally know a couple ESFJs like this. More direct and "In Charge" than me (supposedly a direct and "In Charge" type"). We don't have to read too much into the interaction styles. However, I'll lean more towards ESTJ for Jackie but possibly she might be a very "In Charge" selfish ESFJ type.