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  1. #71
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Space_Oddity View Post
    Hmm... to be honest, this sounds to me like your relating to her is more personally based than type based. I don't think there's anything bad about that, as the fictional character I possibly relate the most to is before mentioned INFJ Anne Elliot... I just don't think that anything you mentioned above points to an INFP and not INFJ. Maybe it's possible for INFPs to seek moral retribution, but it's typical for INFJs, for instance. INFJs are the archetypal judgers of other people's feelings/actions, the judgers who actually act and not only theorize. I think that Amelie's initial detachedness from other people is a typical Ni thing, and later she connects with them through Fe, not Ne. (She's very similar to Sara Crewe in A Little Princess in this aspect - another INFJ character I hugely relate to.) Plus, personally I think that an INFP would question more if their actions are truly beneficial for those who they help, in other words, if they are universally just; Amelie seems to be more self-righteous and doesn't really question that at all (she seems to have her own justice). It's not like self-righteous INFPs don't exist, but in fiction, self-righteousness is typical for INFJs.

    Besides that, have you noticed the parallel between Amelie and the old man? I believe that he's an INTJ, and they basically have the same goal (Ni), but they use different means (Fe x Te) to reach it.
    I think she is universalizing her feeling....she empathizes with someone she sees as a victim and then justifies her actions against the "victimzer" by making herself some kind of representative for karma. That could be Ne universalizing Fi feelings and judgments.

    She also connects to people with imaginative, indirect ways, which seems Ne over Fe to me. However, I could see an argument for Ni coming out through Fe.

    My point is, I don't think enough points to INFJ over INFP or vice versa. Some things point to one over the other, but a lot of it is neutral. I think if her character spoke more it would be more telling. We mostly just observe her in the movie and have a narrator talking to us.


    Well, maybe I would be able to see the ENFJ, but certainly not the INFJ, for the simple reason that Elizabeth strikes me as a total extrovert. She even openly despises Mr Darcy for being so antisocal. Besides, if she was an INFJ, she would have to be the same type as Anne Elliot, and I'm afraid I fail to see any similarities besides both of them being clever. However, to be honest, I don't buy the ENFJ either. If she was an ENFJ, she would have to be Fe dominant, and I really don't think she's that in tune with community or even so concerned about others - the opposite is the truth most of the time, she is very independent and doesn't care much about following norms. She does have a certain 'Fe' personal charm, but that could very well be the Tertiary. (Every ENTP I know is an extremely charming person.) I don't even see her as an NF, to tell the truth - the thing she values the most about herself seems to be her independence and her keen wit, which is typical for ENTP women from what I've observed. Plus, most of her talks with Mr Darcy are heated intellectual discussions; she sees her NF sister Jane as a 'too kind' dreamer; her INTP father relates to her the best; and she's an almost polar opposite of her obnoxious ESFJ mother. All of this leaves me with an NT.

    As for your arguments, I'm not sure if I find them valid. firstly, I don't see that much self-discipline in Elizabeth at all, what I see first and foremost is pride and opinionatedness, and she doesn't really direct her intelligence anywhere, apart from enjoying her battles of wit. That doesn't exclude ENTP at all. Secondly, I do think that Elizabeth acts pretty impetuous and passionate from time to time.

    Elizabeth dislikes Darcy for not being social - exactly, he is not meeting the social requirements for a polite gentleman and his rudeness offends her. I hardly see an NT being so offended by this, but a Fe-aux, yes. She is also embarrassed by her silly younger sisters and concerned about their reputation, whereas her INTP dad just laughs at them. I don't see an ENTP being so concerned about impropriety. She also uses her intelligence with her father in trying to see why something is a bad idea. I feel there's some Ni in her foresight of how her sister's going off with the troops is not smart.

    She seems too quick to judge people and comes to conclusions too quickly (ie. Mr. Darcy and Mr. Wickham's characters were surmised very quickly by her, too quickly) to be Ne-dom. I also find ENTPs much more abrasive and less emotional, and while she has a sharp tongue, she avoids outright rudeness unless she is provoked and gets emotional. Most NFJs I know enjoy verbal wit and intellectual discussion and I don't know any NF woman who does not value independence. Don't mistake Feeling for softness.

    She also seeks out a lot of time alone to meditate on her feelings. In the book, she seems to prefer being alone or not among a large group. The movie makes her a lot more vivacious and rebellious in spirit. Although, I could see her as a low E.

    I don't see Jane as NF at all (I'd say ISFx), but that's not what we're discussing.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

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  2. #72
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Half the INFJs on this forum are fictitious.

  3. #73
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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  4. #74
    Senior Member Space_Oddity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    Elizabeth dislikes Darcy for not being social - exactly, he is not meeting the social requirements for a polite gentleman and his rudeness offends her. I hardly see an NT being so offended by this, but a Fe-aux, yes. She is also embarrassed by her silly younger sisters and concerned about their reputation, whereas her INTP dad just laughs at them. I don't see an ENTP being so concerned about impropriety. She also uses her intelligence with her father in trying to see why something is a bad idea. I feel there's some Ni in her foresight of how her sister's going off with the troops is not smart.

    She seems too quick to judge people and comes to conclusions too quickly (ie. Mr. Darcy and Mr. Wickham's characters were surmised very quickly by her, too quickly) to be Ne-dom. I also find ENTPs much more abrasive and less emotional, and while she has a sharp tongue, she avoids outright rudeness unless she is provoked and gets emotional. Most NFJs I know enjoy verbal wit and intellectual discussion and I don't know any NF woman who does not value independence. Don't mistake Feeling for softness.

    She also seeks out a lot of time alone to meditate on her feelings. In the book, she seems to prefer being alone or not among a large group. The movie makes her a lot more vivacious and rebellious in spirit. Although, I could see her as a low E.
    Ok, I see your point now. The problem is, we probably have a different idea of what an ENTP or NFJ woman looks like, and we imagined Elizabeth differently while reading the book. I admit that I partly see Elizabeth as an ENTP because a few of my ENTP friends are virtually her mind-mates, they have about the same level of Fe (which they apply only on people who they dislike, at least in the sense of a 'social norm') and a very similar "energy" about them, so I really don't have a reason not to believe she is one. Contrastively, the NFJs I know are nothing like Elizabeth (they are much more structured and apparently emotional, for one thing, and they try very hard to be polite and nice to everyone), so I have a hard time seeing her as one. You actually addressed it just right - my idea of Elizabeth after reading the book was much closer to the one pictured in the movie than the one in the 1995 BBC series, which really is written and presented as an xNFJ. I would have to read the book again to add more arguments, but it's interesting to see what a huge role individual interpretation plays in this.

    It just crossed my mind that Elizabeth Bennet and Jane Eyre are often considered to be 'soul-mates' (at least in the sense of wanting to be 'equal' to their partners), which would support your theory. However, even if I see general similarities, my personal ideas of Jane and Elizabeth are substantially different. It probably has a lot to do with the fact that they appear in books written by an F author and a T author, which has a dramatic effect on the tone and general 'feel' of the novels.

  5. #75
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Space_Oddity View Post
    You actually addressed it just right - my idea of Elizabeth after reading the book was much closer to the one pictured in the movie than the one in the 1995 BBC series, which really is written and presented as an xNFJ. I would have to read the book again to add more arguments, but it's interesting to see what a huge role individual interpretation plays in this.
    Exactly....my view of the 1995 series version is that it is a more accurate portrayal of the book than the recent movie. I suppose it's a different interpretation of the character then.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

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  6. #76
    Senior Member Space_Oddity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    Exactly....my view of the 1995 series version is that it is a more accurate portrayal of the book than the recent movie. I suppose it's a different interpretation of the character then.
    Yeah. Glad we agreed on that


    Back to the topic... what about some of Meg Ryan's characters? I keep thinking about the one in French Kiss, but probably my memory is deluding me and she was actually an ISTJ. But the one in You've Got Mail was an INFJ, I suppose - and a variation on Elizabeth Bennet, actually. It seems like I'm losing

  7. #77
    Babylon Candle Venom's Avatar
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    I actually read once that INFJ works better in novels and INFPs work better on screen. Therefore films tend to adapt even the INFJ book characters to be INFPs.

    INFJ just doesnt work well as a movie character (too much inner monologue that would go unnoticed).
    INFP just doesnt work as well as a book character (too much outward moping rather than analysis inner monologue)

    :takes cover:

  8. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Babylon Candle View Post
    I actually read once that INFJ works better in novels and INFPs work better on screen. Therefore films tend to adapt even the INFJ book characters to be INFPs.

    INFJ just doesnt work well as a movie character (too much inner monologue that would go unnoticed).
    INFP just doesnt work as well as a book character (too much outward moping rather than analysis inner monologue)

    :takes cover:
    sounds pretty possible to me

  9. #79
    Senior Member Space_Oddity's Avatar
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    Another idea...

    I think that many, if not most of, Cate Blanchett's characters might be INFJs. In my opinion, she has such a strong INFJ vibe that she's either casted into the roles of INFJs or they become INFJ because she plays them.

    I get a similar vibe from Audrey Tautou, actually.

  10. #80
    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Space_Oddity View Post
    Another idea...

    I think that many, if not most of, Cate Blanchett's characters might be INFJs. In my opinion, she has such a strong INFJ vibe that she's either casted into the roles of INFJs or they become INFJ because she plays them.
    Well, I think Cate IS an INFJ in real life, so it makes sense that she'd carry some of that into her roles. (and she's been cast in INFJ roles as well)
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