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Thread: Kurt Cobain

  1. #31
    Glowy Goopy Goodness The_Liquid_Laser's Avatar
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    I still haven't heard a good argument for why he's an N. I agree with IxFP all the way, but how can we be sure about the N. I could be convinced of INFP if someone could make a good argument for N, but it seems like he is more likely ISFP.
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  2. #32
    Senior Member Sunshine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Liquid_Laser View Post
    I still haven't heard a good argument for why he's an N. I agree with IxFP all the way, but how can we be sure about the N. I could be convinced of INFP if someone could make a good argument for N, but it seems like he is more likely ISFP.
    I dunno. From the lyrics I saw they actually seemed more concrete than abstract. Which is interesting because other people seem to think the opposite. Suppose it depends on your criteria.

    When it comes to the edgy in your face thing...I'm no so sure I agree...I think it would either be equal or that INFPs would actually be more likely to be edgy and in your face.

    Lol not that any of that is worth anything. Just felt like throwing in my $.02

  3. #33
    Senior Member the state i am in's Avatar
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    just to make sure nobody gets the wrong idea, he's 100% N.

    "sell the kids for food
    weather changes moods
    spring is here again
    reproductive glands

    we can have some more
    nature is a whore
    bruises on the fruit
    tender age in bloom

    read his journals. he is one of my favorite examples of radically brilliant N along with jeff mangum and david berman and conor oberst. all infp songwriters. hmm...

    his wordplay is fantastic. and his values could NOT be crossed. even his cartoons were great. he's one of my favorite artists all-time.

  4. #34
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    I am not trying to be contentious but what is INFP about those lyrics? Far be it from me to project my own feelings and experiences onto other INFPs, but those lyrics are rather aggressively not me. I don't really know much about Cobain, but the lyrics I've been reading just seem to be filled with vivid imagery and provocative obscurity (which is not me, not when I'm pouring out my soul through music). And yes I am an INFP and a lyricist and maybe I'm being too personal about this. I'd love if other INFPs who write lyrics could point it out to me, what I'm missing here.

    When I think of INFP musicians, I think they'd be more like those people who disappear for long periods of time (something I do quite often in my personal life). Maxwell, Sade, Lauryn Hill, Kate Bush (not saying they're all INFPs, especially not sure about Maxwell and Kate Bush). The lyrics are heartfelt and intense because that is what we are. I'm missing the "heartfelt" part of Cobain's lyrics. In fact, as with "Smells Like Teen Spirit", sometimes I'm sure he's taking the piss and not really serious about all the words at all.

    Lauryn Hill's "Just Like Water"

    Moving down the streams of my lifetime
    Pulls the fascination in my sleeve
    Cooling off the fire of my longing
    Boiling off my cold within his heat
    Melting down the walls of inhibition
    Evaporating all of my fears
    Baptizing me into complete submission
    Dissolving my condition with his tears


    I am no great lyricist but that's the way I write. Trying to pour my soul out through the use of metaphors. When I'm angry or ravaged, I get extremely personal. But you'll understand it through the words. I don't see this in Cobain's "intense" lyrics. If anything, the words are so aggressive, the voice so caustic and primal, that there still seems to be a defensive layer there.

    Is this what a mad INFP is like? I can get pretty bitter in my writing but when I'm really off I can't write so maybe that's why I am not identifying.

  5. #35
    morose bourgeoisie
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    I don't know what Cobain was, but...

    ISFP's tend to be more sensual in nature, and consequently tend to focus more on the melody of music than the lyrics. INFP's are more likely to express themselves through words and therefore focus more on the lyrics. The problem with Curt Kobain is that he wrote both the music and the lyrics for his songs, and he did a good job with both in my opinion. Is he an INFP with a talent for melody or an ISFP with a talent for lyrics? I can't distinguish whether he is S or N from his music. (On the other hand Jim Morrison was probably an INFP, since he tended to focus a lot more on lyrics than music in my opinion, and I'd say John Fogerty is an ISFP for the opposite reason.)

    Where does this come from? I'm INFP, and I definitely have a closer connection to melody than lyrics. I can also tell you that musical intelligence is not directly related to type, at least not in my travels as a musician. Personality is as little related to musical aptitude as it is to athletics, imo...

  6. #36
    Senior Member GirlFromMars's Avatar
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    Before I ever read this thread, I thought to myself "I bet he's an INFP" Something just stikes me. I feel like I can "get him" I love Kurt/Nirvana and know quite a bit about him. I've "studied" his music, watched his interviews, etc. And to me his (supposed) suicide note has INFP written all over it. Or maybe that's just me...

    Here's a part esp. that made me think INFP:

    "I'm too sensitive. I need to be slightly numb in order to regain the enthusiasms I once had as a child.

    On our last 3 tours, I've had a much better appreciation for all the people I've known personally, and as fans of our music, but I still can't get over the frustration, the guilt and empathy I have for everyone. There's good in all of us and I think I simply love people too much, so much that it makes me feel too fucking sad. The sad little, sensitive, unappreciative, Pisces, Jesus man. Why don't you just enjoy it? I don't know!

    I have a goddess of a wife who sweats ambition and empathy and a daughter who reminds me too much of what i used to be, full of love and joy, kissing every person she meets because everyone is good and will do her no harm. And that terrifies me to the point to where I can barely function. I can't stand the thought of Frances becoming the miserable, self-destructive, death rocker that I've become.

    I have it good, very good, and I'm grateful, but since the age of seven, I've become hateful towards all humans in general. Only because it seems so easy for people to get along that have empathy. Only because I love and feel sorry for people too much I guess.

    Thank you all from the pit of my burning, nauseous stomach for your letters and concern during the past years. I'm too much of an erratic, moody baby! I don't have the passion anymore, and so remember, it's better to burn out than to fade away."


    I'm not trying to label him INFP straight-up no questions. But it's just a strong sense I get from him.

    Some are just a few points I could make to see if we can figure it out:

    - He was brilliant artist...has anyone seen his drawings? Wow.
    - He claimed people always told him he's way too introverted (atlough I don't think anyone is actually questioning him being introverted here?)
    - He said people thought he was naieve, innocent and needs looking after.
    - He said he procrastinates

    Meh. Sounds a lot like INFP to me.

  7. #37
    THREADKILLER Prototype's Avatar
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    Cobain was definitely a posterchild of sorts, I'd say that at least 90% of his written material had a direct relation to his darker personal life,...IMO other artists tend to repeatedly make up false scenarios in their songs(Theory of a Deadman, Nickelback, Staind)which are quite lame, and too obvious that they never really experienced a "hard life". Cobain was a very expressively abstract lyricist/artist. His drawings, paintings, and art pieces were quite intriguing and brilliant due to the morbidity behind them... INFP?... More than likely!
    ... They say that knowledge is free, and to truly acquire wisdom always comes with a price... Well then,... That will be $10, please!

  8. #38
    Senior Member GirlFromMars's Avatar
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    Also...I write lyrics/poetry and I find some of my work to be similar to his. Not as good as his LOL, but the same kind of style. But then again, I find I write better when I'm in a strong mood. Very sad, mad, stressed etc. That's when I feel I've written my best art. I've also - not trying to be "poor me" - not had the greatest past. So could that be the differences, ladyinspring?

  9. #39
    Senior Member millerm277's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prototype View Post
    Cobain was definitely a posterchild of sorts, I'd say that at least 90% of his written material had a direct relation to his darker personal life,...IMO other artists tend to repeatedly make up false scenarios in their songs(Theory of a Deadman, Nickelback, Staind)which are quite lame, and too obvious that they never really experienced a "hard life". Cobain was a very expressively abstract lyricist/artist. His drawings, paintings, and art pieces were quite intriguing and brilliant due to the morbidity behind them... INFP?... More than likely!
    Agreed with your thoughts, in the same vein, Layne Stanley of Alice In Chains as well. Just look him up, and maybe some song lyrics as well.....
    I-95%, S-84%, T-89%, P-84%

  10. #40
    Senior Member the state i am in's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ladyinspring View Post
    I am not trying to be contentious but what is INFP about those lyrics? Far be it from me to project my own feelings and experiences onto other INFPs, but those lyrics are rather aggressively not me. I don't really know much about Cobain, but the lyrics I've been reading just seem to be filled with vivid imagery and provocative obscurity (which is not me, not when I'm pouring out my soul through music). And yes I am an INFP and a lyricist and maybe I'm being too personal about this. I'd love if other INFPs who write lyrics could point it out to me, what I'm missing here.

    When I think of INFP musicians, I think they'd be more like those people who disappear for long periods of time (something I do quite often in my personal life). Maxwell, Sade, Lauryn Hill, Kate Bush (not saying they're all INFPs, especially not sure about Maxwell and Kate Bush). The lyrics are heartfelt and intense because that is what we are. I'm missing the "heartfelt" part of Cobain's lyrics. In fact, as with "Smells Like Teen Spirit", sometimes I'm sure he's taking the piss and not really serious about all the words at all.

    I am no great lyricist but that's the way I write. Trying to pour my soul out through the use of metaphors. When I'm angry or ravaged, I get extremely personal. But you'll understand it through the words. I don't see this in Cobain's "intense" lyrics. If anything, the words are so aggressive, the voice so caustic and primal, that there still seems to be a defensive layer there.

    Is this what a mad INFP is like? I can get pretty bitter in my writing but when I'm really off I can't write so maybe that's why I am not identifying.
    he has revisions of songs like smells like teen spirit in his journals. he was trying to express something uniquely personal to him. you can be an infp and have no connection to his work, or at least not see it, if you have no connection to his experiences and values.

    he hated these aspects of his experience that represented big awful things to him. sexism. ignorance. jocks. rednecks. etc. he named his band nirvana bc to him punk rock meant freedom. he found this deep well of expression that he deeply connected to, that he tried to immerse himself and his world within. his values were all he had, he was so fucked up (read: paranoid and unhealthy) that he couldn't connect with or trust others. courtney (i think) was an enfj. she would pry shit out of him. unhealthy infps start to spiral, but their expression of their internal world is saturated with (at times) brilliant Ne feeling. kurt's was extremely sarcastic and dour, bitingly grotesque and dry and horrific. and then you talk about punk rock and you can feel how much he believes in it, like a i'd kill myself for this kind of thing this unflinching this is the point of my life kind of thing. he loved punk music and connected to it in the deepest way he connected to anything else.

    the whole world is drifting in and out of metaphor. the Ne filtration is so fucking intensely skewed by his subjective experiences, his trust, his confidence, the warmth or coldness of the world, the beauty or ugliness, how well it fits with his internal values, etc.

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