Christmas song dissection

[Eric B]

I know this song is heavily NF, but wondering whether FeNi or FiNe. the overall tone seems like FiNe, (the iNtuition clearly seems extraverted), but in mentioning it to my wife, she suggested (based on what I've been teaching her about this stuff) that the Feeling in the song was extraverted. It's concerned about the world, "not for myself", and "everyone". However, that of course could be the "universal" aspect of introverted Feeling.

I've come to see "function attitudes" as more fluid rather than hard distinctions. Sometimes it's hard to tell where one ends and the other begins. Hence in cases like this, I'm still trying to make sure I'm understanding it right. The question then is where the desired "harmony" is; internal or external. It seems to be more external, but then, it also sems to match stereotypical portrayals of Fi values. So then, would it be "internal" harmony from the fulfilling of "universal" values ("holistic" connections across "wide area matrix" according to Mark Bruzon, Fundamental Nature of MBTI)?

Anyway, it's well into Christmas season, and I thought it would be good to dissect some songs like this. (There was another one I thought of, but it escapes me at the moment). So what does everyone else take this as?

Do you remember me?
I sat upon your knee
I wrote to you With childhood fantasies
Well, I'm all grown-up now
And still need help somehow.
I'm not a child But my heart still can dream
So here's my lifelong wish
My grown-up christmas list
Not for myself But for a world in need

No more lives torn apart
That wars would never start,
And time would heal all hearts
And everyone would have a friend
And right would always win
And love would never end
This is my grown-up christmas list

As children we believed The grandest sight to see
Was something lovely Wrapped beneath our tree.

Well heaven surely knows
That packages and bows
Can never heal A hurting human soul

No more lives torn apart
That wars would never start
And time would heal all hearts
And everyone would have a friend
And right would always win
And love would never end

This is my grown-up christmas list

What is this illusion called the innocence of youth?
Maybe only in our blind belief can we ever find the truth(There'd be)

No more lives torn apart.
That wars would never start
And time would heal all hearts
And everyone would have a friend
And right would always win
And love would never end, oh
This is my grown-up christmas list
This is my grown-up christmas list.

 

[teslashock]

I see Fe/Ni much more than Fi/Ne. The writer wants community harmony ("wars would never start") and a general sense of universal happiness and love for humanity. The implied altruism of "I don't want a gift for myself but for the world" is pretty clear Fe.

I see Ni in this theme: "What is this illusion called the innocence of youth?
Maybe only in our blind belief can we ever find the truth." The writer sees that perhaps there is no real perfection and peace and harmony; it is a naive notion that we can see only with the perspective of a child.

If it was an Fi oriented song, I think it would be focusing more on describing how the people in this world are hurting. The things that people are missing and why this is so unfair and why we all should be focused on fixing things. The description of pain would be a lot more visceral and used to really tear at the listener's heart, and I don't really see that in this song at all. I see Fe because it's not focusing on specific emotions and pains of people but just a general discontent with how fucked up the world is as a whole.

Also, I don't see any Ne really at all. I see a bunch of Ni symbols (a Christmas list, time as a healing entity, etc).

 

[Eric B]

Thanks.
Interesting.
Yeah, as I said, the Feeling did seem more extraverted. But for some reasons, I have not come to associate this type of theme with NFJ's. Maybe I just don't know enough of them, and the topic has not come up here enough for me to see them expressing this kind of thing. INFP's are usually the ones portrayed sitting around and imagining this kind of universal harmony.

Ni is still the most difficult function I find to fully understand, and it usually is described in terms of future symbols. So the symbolism, and the whole concept of idealistic "dreaming" I assumed was Ne. Like just the possibility of what could be with these things being made right. But then I guess that's universal symbols.