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  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by aphrodite-gone-awry View Post
    haha. You are relentless! I've been all over that site-a long time ago. She is a bit less directive than myself, perhaps, but she has to be because she is a Star
    Normal typological growth for an INFJ involves becoming more directive (Fe) as one ages; for an INFP (Ne), less judgmental, less "black and white." Or as INFP Dylan put it:

    YouTube - Another Side of Bob Dylan - 08 My Back Pages

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by aphrodite-gone-awry View Post
    Yes, it is wise to fear the judgment of the One Ni. Tread carefully,and consider yourself warned.
    It isn't the judgment per se that causes problems for the Ni dom so much as it is the inability to effectively process new data once a decision has been made. My experience with INFJs is minimal by comparison to my experience with INTJs, but I can give you examples of INTJs I know who reached their conclusions on the "correct" theory of nutrition, linguistics, exercise, politics, whatever 30+ years ago and steadfastly refuse to allow themselves to be influenced by new, contradictory information...

    One of the huge advantages INFP actors have over INFJ actors is the fact they are, from a functional perspective, far more present-bound than future-bound. They don't jump on an Ni-train and act on automatic pilot, they remain open to the experience via Ne and Fi, both of which are present-oriented, and as Meryl alluded to on ITAS, pray for acts of God or "accidents" to happen onstage/on set so that the acting takes place truly "in the moment." In other words, NFPs are far more comfortable improvising than NFJs. As those who work alongside INFP actors note, they are constantly changing line readings and characterizations to engender authenticity, both from an external perspective (so it looks real) and an internal one (so it feels real).

    YouTube - Julius Caesar (1953) - Mark Antony speech
    YouTube - Meryl Streep as Lindy Chamberlain

  3. #53

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fecal McAngry View Post
    I honestly have not constructed a hierarchy for which types are best at typing others,
    There isn't one. Typing people is a skill like any other, and the best way to get good at it is to practice effectively. Practice typing people both in and out of your comfort zone, and wherever possible get them to learn about the MBTI and figure out their own type themselves without any prompting from you. Over time, your accuracy will improve, and you'll naturally be better attuned to figuring people out.

    If you want to argue that a certain type might be predisposed to superior analysis and observation, sure... but the ones who put in the most effort and have the most experience will still ultimately give you the best readings.
    Call me Visa, please!
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  4. #54

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fecal McAngry View Post
    It isn't the judgment per se that causes problems for the Ni dom so much as it is the inability to effectively process new data once a decision has been made. My experience with INFJs is minimal by comparison to my experience with INTJs, but I can give you examples of INTJs I know who reached their conclusions on the "correct" theory of nutrition, linguistics, exercise, politics, whatever 30+ years ago and steadfastly refuse to allow themselves to be influenced by new, contradictory information...
    INTJs and INFJs are very different people; the most significant difference that tends to be overlooked are the tertiary functions- Ti for INFJs and Fi for INTJs. I have plenty of experience with both INTJs and INFJs, and I notice that relative to one another, INTJs seem to be more open-minded, and INFJs tend to seem more steadfast, but it is in fact in reality the other way around, most of the time.
    Call me Visa, please!
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  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by visaisahero View Post
    INTJs and INFJs are very different people; the most significant difference that tends to be overlooked are the tertiary functions- Ti for INFJs and Fi for INTJs. I have plenty of experience with both INTJs and INFJs, and I notice that relative to one another, INTJs seem to be more open-minded, and INFJs tend to seem more steadfast, but it is in fact in reality the other way around, most of the time.
    You're missing the point. With any IN_J, the chassis is the same; Ni with tertiary Se. The same problems with processing new information post-decision found in INFJs are found in INTJs and vice versa.

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by visaisahero View Post
    There isn't one. Typing people is a skill like any other, and the best way to get good at it is to practice effectively. Practice typing people both in and out of your comfort zone, and wherever possible get them to learn about the MBTI and figure out their own type themselves without any prompting from you. Over time, your accuracy will improve, and you'll naturally be better attuned to figuring people out.

    If you want to argue that a certain type might be predisposed to superior analysis and observation, sure... but the ones who put in the most effort and have the most experience will still ultimately give you the best readings.
    As with all g-loaded skills, however, and typing is one, there will be stratification along typological lines. Your first statement simply isn't true, as you essentially acknowledge...For a constant level of g, all else equal, INTPs > INFPs at chess, and INFPs > INTPs at acting.

    The real questions are how much stratification will we see, and along what lines. I have some ideas, but insufficient data to confirm...

  7. #57
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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  8. #58
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fecal McAngry View Post
    It isn't the judgment per se that causes problems for the Ni dom so much as it is the inability to effectively process new data once a decision has been made. My experience with INFJs is minimal by comparison to my experience with INTJs, but I can give you examples of INTJs I know who reached their conclusions on the "correct" theory of nutrition, linguistics, exercise, politics, whatever 30+ years ago and steadfastly refuse to allow themselves to be influenced by new, contradictory information...

    One of the huge advantages INFP actors have over INFJ actors is the fact they are, from a functional perspective, far more present-bound than future-bound. They don't jump on an Ni-train and act on automatic pilot, they remain open to the experience via Ne and Fi, both of which are present-oriented, and as Meryl alluded to on ITAS, pray for acts of God or "accidents" to happen onstage/on set so that the acting takes place truly "in the moment." In other words, NFPs are far more comfortable improvising than NFJs. As those who work alongside INFP actors note, they are constantly changing line readings and characterizations to engender authenticity, both from an external perspective (so it looks real) and an internal one (so it feels real).

    YouTube - Julius Caesar (1953) - Mark Antony speech
    YouTube - Meryl Streep as Lindy Chamberlain
    Gawd. I can't believe I'm still talking about this. It isn't my style, and I don't much care, yet here I am. Did you consider that she 'needs an act of God' because she is not as comfortable improvising as some of her Ne cohorts? And that it's harder for her to be truly 'in the moment' without some external force happening?

    Furthermore, you didn't really address, to my satisfaction, the issue of you, an introverted judger, using extraverted judging skills to assess actors/others' types.
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    Do not resist an evil person, but to him who strikes you on the one cheek, offer also the other. ~Matthew 5:39

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  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by aphrodite-gone-awry View Post
    Did you consider that she 'needs an act of God' because she is not as comfortable improvising as some of her Ne cohorts? And that it's harder for her to be truly 'in the moment' without some external force happening?

    Furthermore, you didn't really address, to my satisfaction, the issue of you, an introverted judger, using extraverted judging skills to assess actors/others' types.
    First, as an INFP I don't primarily use extroverted judging skills to type people. Where that assumption came from, I do not know.

    Second, WRT Meryl and acting, MS has stated in the past that "acting is reacting," (possible paraphrase) and that, therefore, the most authentic acting involves reacting to something unexpected. This is exactly how INFP actors function, indeed how we thrive. We are far less comfortable initiating action, as is the case with NFJ actors, and we are far more comfortable operating as counterpunchers. What INFP actors tend to feed on (improvisation within a scripted scene) tends to be disconcerting for IN_Js even if they realize that it has benefits wrt authenticity.

    While ideally external forces will provoke true spontaneity, in the absence thereof, INFP actors and musicians will fuck things up a bit to create authentic reactions in themselves...Mike Nichols commented that the first time he saw Meryl she was in a play in which it appeared that everyone else was reciting scripted lines but Meryl was improvising...

    A nice contrast. INFP and INFJ in the same scene. Note how the INFP makes the INFJ seem kinda invisible: YouTube - Back to Africa - episode from "The Interpreter"

    While I think the contrast between the organic and the more formulaic is visible here on film it's more visible onstage...by a fair margin...

  10. #60
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    ^Yeah, she feels pretty flat here. Meryl's never flat. I'll think about it.
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    Do not resist an evil person, but to him who strikes you on the one cheek, offer also the other. ~Matthew 5:39

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