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  1. #31
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fecal McAngry View Post
    She doesn't extrovert feeling; it's very clear in interviews that Ne is her dominant extroverted function.

    YouTube - Inside The Actor's Studio Meryl Streep 3

    It's equally clear--but more subtle--that the engine that drives the machine is Fi...
    Thanks for that, Fecal. It just really drove home for me that she really IS an infj. You didn't see my video probably, that I made for Type C, but I totally speak like she does in this clip, and her humor is very much like mine here. I feel her very strongly as infj. If you don't feel Fe, it's simply because she is nervous here, you can see it clearly, and can tell her mouth is dry. She's still very Fe to me, cracking jokes and stuff. She's always smiling that Ni smile too. I'd be curious to see what the female infps had to say about Meryl. You've heard of 'gaydar,' well, it seems like with type there is a sort of 'type radar' when someone is your own type and it just resonates into you.
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  2. #32
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fecal McAngry View Post
    Not at all. On this forum, for example, INTPs generally among the best at theoretical knowledge of typology, and among the weakest at actually typing people.

    Of course, that's what you'd expect, theoretically...
    I would be very cautious about making any inferences regarding an individual's personal qualities on the basis of their type. It is often very difficult to make such judgments without committing the Keirseyan fallacy. Essentially a temperament is merely a collection of an individual's natural tendencies of thought. Often times these tendencies entail behaviors, yet it is unclear what the precise frequency rate is. For example, Introversion often leads people to become quiet and reserved, yet there are introverts who have obnoxious and brash personalities. Similarly, an INTP set of dispositions may often lead a person to be uininterested in people and therefore perform poorly in determing their type, yet again, its unclear how often this happens.

    We'd need careful empirical studies to answer that question. What would be necessary is a study that shows that people of a certain type in all scenarios tend to exhibit the same traits. As for instance, if INTPs in all sub-cultures of China, South Africa, Australlia, U.S and virtually all parts of the world displayed the behaviors you have in mind; we would be able to conclude that the temperament is a likely cause of the behavior. However, since we have none of such studies, we do not know if the INTPs you observed are poor at typing people because of their temperament or because of their extra-typological influences such as their culture or personal experiences. If the latter is the case, then your characterization is not describing a temperament, but merely socio-cultural personality features that are irrelevant to typology.

    In short, the problem with the Keirseyan inference is that it asserts conclusions about the empirical world or about people and fails to provide a sufficiently rigorous justification. What would be necessary is a careful controlled empirical study as described above. Keirsey lacks this and merely claims that the 'behavioral sciences' such as anthropology, sociology and psychology have guided his insights. He offered us no reason to believe that this is true, the method of Please Undersand Me Volumes I and II are pseudo-scientific through and through.
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  3. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fecal McAngry View Post
    If that is the case, he's either exceptional for that type, or not an INTP. Empathy is not exactly an INTP strong suit, nor are the typological preferences which allow one to compensate for it to some extent present in an INTP.

    That having been said, I know one ENTP who is very good at typing others, underlining that this is to some extent a learned skill.
    I never said anything about empathy! He is cold, detached and generally can't be bothered about anybody unless he considers them to be a close friend. And he's as INTP as they get- VERY dominant Ti-Ne with highly inferior Fe. He's "astroninja" on these forums- he's on your friends list!
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  4. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fecal McAngry View Post
    She doesn't extrovert feeling; it's very clear in interviews that Ne is her dominant extroverted function.

    YouTube - Inside The Actor's Studio Meryl Streep 3

    It's equally clear--but more subtle--that the engine that drives the machine is Fi...
    I just watched the video- She SCREAMS introverted intuition. Ni-Fe. INFJ for sure.

    Personally, I think it's risky to try and type a person based on what you perceive their secondary function to be, because the secondary function is likely to be highly influenced by the dominant function. Always start with THE dominant function- in this case, introverted intuition.
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  5. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by aphrodite-gone-awry View Post
    You've heard of 'gaydar,' well, it seems like with type there is a sort of 'type radar' when someone is your own type and it just resonates into you.
    I don't think this applies just to your type- I have specific radars for several specific types- I recognize all variations of ExxPs, INTPs, INTJs, INFJs, ENFJs very, very well. I don't immediately recognize ExTJs or ISxx's though, except maybe for ISTJ's.

    But of course, it's exceptionally strong for your own type because you can sense that familiarity- they react the same way you would, make the same sort of decisions...
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  6. #36
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by visaisahero View Post
    I don't think this applies just to your type- I have specific radars for several specific types- I recognize ENTPs, INTPs, INTJs, INFJs, ENFJs, ISTJs, ENFPs very, very well.
    Yeah, I know what you mean. I do that with infps too. But there is a certain, eh, weird communion I feel with other female infjs.
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  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by aphrodite-gone-awry View Post
    Thanks for that, Fecal. It just really drove home for me that she really IS an infj. You didn't see my video probably, that I made for Type C, but I totally speak like she does in this clip, and her humor is very much like mine here. I feel her very strongly as infj. If you don't feel Fe, it's simply because she is nervous here, you can see it clearly, and can tell her mouth is dry. She's still very Fe to me, cracking jokes and stuff. She's always smiling that Ni smile too. I'd be curious to see what the female infps had to say about Meryl. You've heard of 'gaydar,' well, it seems like with type there is a sort of 'type radar' when someone is your own type and it just resonates into you.
    If you believe her to be an INFJ, revisit this site INFJ or INFP? a closer look and read "Your Preferred Communication Style." and then read some MS interviews, paying attention to what is actually there. Not what you think is going to be there (a bit possible stumbling block for INJs), but what is actually there. In other words, is she communicating via a judging function, or a perceptive function.

    If you like, I'd be happy to post some MS interviews and diagram as needed, the Ne is all over the place.

    Some actual INFJs interviewed:
    YouTube - Kristin Scott Thomas on Flick's Flicks
    YouTube - The Illusionist Edward Norton interview

  8. #38
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fecal McAngry View Post
    If you believe her to be an INFJ, revisit this site INFJ or INFP? a closer look and read "Your Preferred Communication Style." and then read some MS interviews, paying attention to what is actually there. Not what you think is going to be there (a bit possible stumbling block for INJs), but what is actually there. In other words, is she communicating via a judging function, or a perceptive function.

    If you like, I'd be happy to post some MS interviews and diagram as needed, the Ne is all over the place.

    Some actual INFJs interviewed:
    YouTube - Kristin Scott Thomas on Flick's Flicks
    YouTube - The Illusionist Edward Norton interview
    haha. You are relentless! I've been all over that site-a long time ago. She is a bit less directive than myself, perhaps, but she has to be because she is a Star. She is so much older now, I've no doubt she probably uses Ne with agility, too because I'd guess acting to be an Ne dom profession, so she's used to being around it all the time. She may not be harsh, indeed is not harsh, but the way she quirks her eyes sideways at you and grins that grin, while she delivers her truth, is her gentle way of being directive, without appearing to be directive.
    Ni/Ti/Fe/Si
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    The more one loves God, the more it is that having nothing in the world means everything, and the less one loves God, the more it is that having everything in the world means nothing.

    Do not resist an evil person, but to him who strikes you on the one cheek, offer also the other. ~Matthew 5:39

    songofmary.wordpress.com


  9. #39

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    (in response to Fecal)
    ^Sure, there is Ne- but I don't see it as her driving force. If anything, it seems more learned than natural. Your shadow functions could be developed however you like them to be. My girlfriend is an INFJ and I am always amused by her Ne insights (as she is pleasantly surprised by my Ni)- but it doesn't change the fact that I am Ne-dom, not Ni, and she's Ni-dom, not Ne.

    You're obviously not going to change your mind, though! So I'm not too sure where this is going, now.
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  10. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by aphrodite-gone-awry View Post
    but the way she quirks her eyes sideways at you and grins that grin, while she delivers her truth, is her gentle way of being directive, without appearing to be directive.
    YES. This is one of those small little things that every INFJ (that has had me wrapped around her finger) has always been able to do, effortlessly. It is very uncommon and very, very refreshing. I definitely know it when I see it, even if I'm not completely sure what I'm looking for.
    Call me Visa, please!
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