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  1. #31
    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Liquid_Laser View Post
    I don't think you are going to find consistent behavioral traits from an INFJ unless you get to know them really well. One consistant trait of INFJ's is that they tend to be private and difficult to know well.
    Oh, I would agree. But since I feel I know 3 quite well, I've seen nearly all of their various sides, and so I guess in looking at new people whose type is in question, I'll look for some of the subtle behavioral things *behind* the more obvious ones -- so I think I can detect some of the stuff behind what's being immediately presented. I admit I tend to rely a lot on body language and inflection though, and more how the person interacts with the other person (not purely WHAT they're saying, but how they're saying it, and..oh, I can't explain it)...and try to tie all of that in with the words that are being spoken, as well as the context the person is in (i.e. party, vs interview, vs one on one)....Example - So if I see someone acting extroverted, I won't immediately think: 'Extrovert!' I'll look at how they're carrying themselves, whether they LOOK at ease or not....etc. I really can't explain all of it.

    INFJ's are complex, and hard to get to know. Their behavior can look quite different from one INFJ to the next. That is why they are so hard to type.
    Agreed. But I would argue one way to start typing them would be their interpersonal skills, being very conscientious of what they're saying and how it comes across (more your Fe side) and being attune to the situation at hand and consequently adjusting to make themselves fit in more as well as making those around them more at ease, and then just the sense that they're holding a lot back, and there's a lot more that's not being said. That could be a start.

    Any person who has a significantly high IQ is going to feel this way as well. The high IQ makes them feel different than everyone else. If the person is also an introvert then that is going to make them feel even more misunderstood and disassociated from people in general. It is quite common for high IQ IS's to feel this way.
    I wish I knew some high IQ ISFJ's so I'd have a better comparison!!! I only know a couple of high IQ ENFP's, an ENTJ, one of my INFJ friends, and then myself. And yes, all, even the ENFP's, definitely feel disassociated on some level from people in general. But anyway - I haven't seen anything in Michelle's behavior that disqualifies her from INFJ. Now it doesn't mean she is, but I haven't seen anything notably anti-INFJ, just using my friends and myself in comparison - except perhaps the smoking thing. :-P

    Oh, and her quotes where she mentions 'crying hysterically at the end of the day', being overloaded and not being able to sleep, and being easily influenced and affected by other peoples' opinions seem more F to me.

  2. #32
    Senior Member JivinJeffJones's Avatar
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    Bah. I will leave my confirmation bias out of this, since you all seem to be making progress. Even if I vehemently disagree with that progress.

  3. #33
    Don't pet me. JAVO's Avatar
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    I had successfully forgotten about Michelle Pfeiffer , and then I come across this thread! :steam:

    I'm going to rock the boat and say that I think there's a good chance she's an INTP, but I'm not going to put much effort into defending that assertion. Being an NT adequately explains her desire for some structure and to be prepared (you can't see the whole picture unless you've taken time to synthesize all of the facts).

  4. #34
    Dhampyr Economica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JAVO View Post
    I'm going to rock the boat and say that I think there's a good chance she's an INTP, but I'm not going to put much effort into defending that assertion.
    As far as I'm concerned you're not rocking the boat unless you come up with good arguments.

  5. #35
    Don't pet me. JAVO's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Economica View Post
    As far as I'm concerned you're not rocking the boat unless you come up with good arguments.
    Noooo.... I am rocking the boat because I said so! Stop trying to make my statements match reality! Look, I even made a list for you!

    These facts just seem to be so INTP:

    • being a "clever student"
    • boarding school being "not very interesting"
    • being "questioning" as a kid
    • discipline being irrelevant
    • challenging the system by skipping school yet getting by easily (this seems so SP-like, except she has intuitive reasons and goals for it)
    • ignoring all things except those she had a strong interest in
    • pageants were done with specific goal in mind, not for the pageant itself
    • crying at end of day could be honest admission of stress causing her inferior Fe to appear
    • If anyone cites an example of any of her non-INTP behavior, I will explain it away as INTP-chameleoning behavior!

  6. #36
    Dhampyr Economica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JAVO View Post
    Look, I even made a list for you!


    I'm off to drink red wine with my ENFJ friend, BBL.

  7. #37
    Don't pet me. JAVO's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Economica View Post
    I'm off to drink red wine with my ENFJ friend, BBL.
    SFP!

  8. #38
    Glowy Goopy Goodness The_Liquid_Laser's Avatar
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    Looking at the quotes from Economica's post 21, this is the impression I get from each one:
    I used to smoke two packs a day and I just hate being a nonsmoker... but I will never consider myself a nonsmoker because I always find smokers the most interesting people at the table.
    Ironically I think this shows Si. She wants to revert back to the impression she always had of nonsmokers instead of changing her viewpoint.

    I was never in school, but I graduated in three years, with honors, I just skated on through, because I knew how to manipulate the system.
    Manipulating the system is Ni.

    I'm really impatient with myself. I've always been this way. I've always wanted everything yesterday. My basic nature is dark. My essence. That doesn't mean that I'm that way all the time, but that's where I work from most often in my life. I always believe that I can do everything, and handle everything, and keep all these balls in the air, and then I don't understand why I'm hysterically crying at the end of the day and why I feel overloaded and can't sleep. It's my greatest asset and my greatest curse-that I'm so fucking self-sufficient.
    This sounds like T. Te specifically can cause someone to be a workaholic to an unhealthy level.

    I'm not a sunny kind of person. My basic nature is rather serious. I've never found that to be terribly interesting. I've always wanted to be more lighthearted, and I've become more so-with a lot of effort.
    This sounds like an ISTJ description to me.

    I always felt a little like an outsider looking in, even with my family. There are participants in life and there are observers, and I've always been an observer. I've been working to try to become less so, because I think it's terribly lonely and isolating to be an observer all the time. Being famous works against you when you're trying to change that.
    I think this describes IxxJ's in general. Emphasis on perception, but detached and introverted.

    I try to protect my own tendency to be affected too much by other people's opinions. It's like the fact that I never discuss my character, my work, with the people in my life, with my boyfriend or my best friend. It's because I know how easily influenced I am, and I know that when I put myself in that kind of situation it will lead me astray from my own instincts. So I go overboard to protect that.
    I think Fe is the function that makes one easily influenced.

    I never think I'm funny, and I'm always in these comedies. See, I don't know how this happens, or why this happens, but I always end up playing the heart of the piece. Like, in a comedy, I always end up playing the anchor, the person whose job is to be believable. And not necessarily funny. Happens to me all the time.
    The anchor, the believable down-to-earth person. This sounds like an SJ.

    If there's a lot demanded of you, working can be very sexually fulfilling. It depends on the movie, on the part.
    I get nothing out of this quote. (At least nothing MBTI related. )

    I think I have a sadomasochistic streak, because acting is kind of brutal
    IxTJ's seem to be pretty masochistic toward their work.

    Almost daily I say to myself, why are you doing this? There are movies that I have done, people that I've worked with, performances I've given that make me say, "That's why I'm doing this." There are certain scenes you do in a movie that are like catching a wave, and you leave work feeling elated - almost as though you've purged something. That's rare, but you do live for those moments.
    I get nothing type related out of this quote either.

    I become paralyzed when I have to make small talk. I'm really horrible at it. All I can do is hope that I won't run out of questions to ask the other person, so I can keep the conversation off myself. Which is why I'm not good at interviews. I tend to go right into the heart of things, and get really personal. Then afterward I read them and I think, Aw, shit. Why the fuck can't you just shut your mouth?
    Sounds like an introvert.

    (About The Witches of Eastwick) The first time I saw it, I hated it. It was so different than the way I had envisioned it. The original script was more of a dark comedy, as opposed to... there were no special effects; there wasn't all of that flying in the air. For me, what was interesting about it was how it played on a psychological level: the power play between men and women.
    J's tend to be more interested in power dynamics. The interest in a dark but down-to-earth comedy with no special effects seems to describe what an ISTJ would like.

    _____________________________

    Overall I think she is an ISTJ. She shows some F and she shows some N. In these respects she is a fairly balanced person, but overall her preferences show her to be ISTJ.
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  9. #39
    Dhampyr Economica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Liquid_Laser View Post
    Ironically I think this shows Si. She wants to revert back to the impression she always had of nonsmokers instead of changing her viewpoint.
    I was considering the quote to be a flag for F, actually. Her nonidentification with nonsmokers strikes me as value-based rather than logic-based.

    Manipulating the system is Ni.
    It's definitely not Si.

    Seriously, this point is really troubling me. Do you guys know ISXJs for whom it 'fits' (sorry, there's them vibes again ) that they would take pride in cleverly having gotten away with slacking?

    This sounds like T. Te specifically can cause someone to be a workaholic to an unhealthy level.
    Hmm... What say the INFJs (apart from cascademn), is it an improbable quote for you? Here it is again:

    I'm really impatient with myself. I've always been this way. I've always wanted everything yesterday. My basic nature is dark. My essence. That doesn't mean that I'm that way all the time, but that's where I work from most often in my life. I always believe that I can do everything, and handle everything, and keep all these balls in the air, and then I don't understand why I'm hysterically crying at the end of the day and why I feel overloaded and can't sleep. It's my greatest asset and my greatest curse-that I'm so fucking self-sufficient.
    ---

    This sounds like an ISTJ description to me.
    It sounds like an IJ description to me.

    I think this describes IxxJ's in general. Emphasis on perception, but detached and introverted.
    I'm going to go out on a limb here and say the quote describes IJs but her saying it is indicative of her being INJ. I've heard INJs describe themselves this exact way, but not ISXJs.

    I think Fe is the function that makes one easily influenced.
    It is IFJ rather than ITJ, that's for sure.

    The anchor, the believable down-to-earth person. This sounds like an SJ.
    ... In a comedy. It sounds IJ to me. I hate to admit it, but I think we're the least funny.

    I get nothing out of this quote. (At least nothing MBTI related. )
    Talking about work being sexually fulfilling? Within the assumption of IJ that says INJ to me.

    IxTJ's seem to be pretty masochistic toward their work.
    Again, I think the quote spells INJ rather than ISJ. The ISJs I know are hard-working but I can't picture them saying that they must have a sadomasochistic streak in order to do what they do.

    J's tend to be more interested in power dynamics. The interest in a dark but down-to-earth comedy with no special effects seems to describe what an ISTJ would like.
    Are you equating N to liking zaney special effects and S with down-to-earth comedy? I was thinking exactly the opposite; that her interest in the psychological aspect and disinterest in special effects and action ('all that flying in the air') is indicative of N.

  10. #40
    Don't pet me. JAVO's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Economica View Post
    Talking about work being sexually fulfilling? Within the assumption of IJ that says INJ to me.
    It says NP to me. We're the masters at redefining work as play, you know!

    Quote Originally Posted by Economica View Post
    Are you equating N to liking zaney special effects and S with down-to-earth comedy? I was thinking exactly the opposite; that her interest in the psychological aspect and disinterest in special effects and action ('all that flying in the air') is indicative of N.
    I definitely agree that this indicates N.

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