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  1. #11
    Glowy Goopy Goodness The_Liquid_Laser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Economica View Post
    Thanks for checking her out, TLL.



    Are you serious? Wait, that was rhetorical, I know you are.

    I'm going to use my on cascademn again before proceeding any further.
    How do you tell the difference between an S and an N? Wouldn't you agree that one distinguishing characteristic of N's is that they desire change much more than S's? (especially SJ's)
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  2. #12
    Dhampyr Economica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Liquid_Laser View Post
    Wouldn't you agree that one distinguishing characteristic of N's is that they desire change much more than S's? (especially SJ's)
    Not to the degree where Michelle Pfeiffer must be an S because she has remained an actress without venturing into other (professional) pursuits, no. I am by no means irrevokably convinced of her N but I definitely need better arguments for S.

  3. #13
    Glowy Goopy Goodness The_Liquid_Laser's Avatar
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    I'm not sure how to type someone as S, other than I conclude that they are definitely not N. This is because N type thinking is what I am most familiar with. What types of characteristics do you look for in an S?
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  4. #14
    On a mission Usehername's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Liquid_Laser View Post
    How do you tell the difference between an S and an N? Wouldn't you agree that one distinguishing characteristic of N's is that they desire change much more than S's? (especially SJ's)
    what about SPs, though? they are the types of all the types to desire change, no?
    *You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body.
    *Faith is the art of holding on to things your reason once accepted, despite your changing moods.
    C.S. Lewis

  5. #15
    Glowy Goopy Goodness The_Liquid_Laser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Usehername View Post
    what about SPs, though? they are the types of all the types to desire change, no?
    SP's are adaptable, but they don't really seek change. They are simply ready to adapt to change when necessary. Most of the SP's I know are fairly content to keep doing the same types of things that they always do. (I'm talking about adults here. SP's as teens will seem to try just about anything.) SP's like to enjoy the sensations of life. Once they know what they enjoy, then they will keep doing those things.
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  6. #16
    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
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    I've been called??? Really...I think you expect too much of me!! haha.

    I watched much of the Inside the Actors Studio clips, and I guess I didn't see her as a 'T'. I almost feel like people think Introverted feelers will be as emotional/'warm' as Extroverted feelers?? When the manner of expression is actually quite different...it's like a much 'quieter' and softer expression of feeling..not overt or exuberant. More controlled, for both the INFJ's and the ISFJ that I know. Again, at least until you get to know them well, and assuming they're being natural and aren't acting more extroverted than they really are. I didn't think Michelle was 'cold', I guess! :-) My impression of her was that she was: personable, poised, articulate, and seemed to have very good interpersonal skills, and could really navigate through conversation well, and expressed herself well. I think this could be ISFJ or INFJ. I guess I don't really see ISTJ displaying all of those interpersonal skills so smoothly? And I'm also having a hard time seeing a lot of 'T' qualities in her manner of expression, and what she's expressing. [Or perhaps I'm the only one viewing her in this light. :-)]

    I'm not sure though about the N or S. I agree she has a sort of ethereal aura, especially when she's really thinking about something...but she also doesn't seem like she's holding back as much as an INFJ. So, I end this with: IxFJ. :-)

    Oh - and as for 'variety of interests/pursuits' = N, I don't think I agree with that. I think there are a lot of N's who become incredibly focused/absorbed in just one interest (I'm thinking more of the academic types). Also, Michelle could very well be a woman who doesn't want to outwardly display all of her interests, and is pursuing more personal hobbies, vs. causes. She mentioned the oil painting/psychiatry interests, and she mentioned how she loves woodworking and building things. [And by the way -- my INFJ friend is quite adept at building things - more so than her husband - and she sews her own clothing and even made an upholstered mini chaise-lounge for her dog :-)...so sensory activities don't have to equate to S-types only.]

    Edit: ARG, I've been thinking about this almost nonstop for almost an hour. The more I think about it, the less satisfied I am with ISFJ, because Michelle didn't seem driven to express minute details of everything, like my ISFJ friend does. Michelle seemed to be much more generalized in some of the things she was saying - painting with a broader stroke (which is what I really think the 'ethereal thing' is- so now I'm leaning more towards INFJ. :-) One who was extremely comfortable in her interview setting.

  7. #17
    Glowy Goopy Goodness The_Liquid_Laser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cascademn View Post
    I've been called??? Really...I think you expect too much of me!! haha.

    I watched much of the Inside the Actors Studio clips, and I guess I didn't see her as a 'T'. I almost feel like people think Introverted feelers will be as emotional/'warm' as Extroverted feelers?? When the manner of expression is actually quite different...it's like a much 'quieter' and softer expression of feeling..not overt or exuberant. More controlled, for both the INFJ's and the ISFJ that I know. Again, at least until you get to know them well, and assuming they're being natural and aren't acting more extroverted than they really are. I didn't think Michelle was 'cold', I guess! :-) My impression of her was that she was: personable, poised, articulate, and seemed to have very good interpersonal skills, and could really navigate through conversation well, and expressed herself well. I think this could be ISFJ or INFJ. I guess I don't really see ISTJ displaying all of those interpersonal skills so smoothly? And I'm also having a hard time seeing a lot of 'T' qualities in her manner of expression, and what she's expressing. [Or perhaps I'm the only one viewing her in this light. :-)]

    I'm not sure though about the N or S. I agree she has a sort of ethereal aura, especially when she's really thinking about something...but she also doesn't seem like she's holding back as much as an INFJ. So, I end this with: IxFJ. :-)
    I could see her being ISFJ. As I've said before I didn't have a strong feeling as to whether she was T or F, but I was leaning T. I don't see ISFJ as an unreasonable type for her though.

    Although I have to say that when it comes to typing INFJ's by their appearance, they are the hardest to type. There is no consistent way that INFJ's act. I only know two people who are INFJ's and neither really fits your description. In fact my wife often looks the opposite. She is very warm and exuberant. You'd think she was an ESFP until you got to know her. The other INFJ I know comes across as more of an ESFJ or maybe ESTJ. Again I had no idea that she is INFJ until she told me.

    (I'm not really a big fan of the "ethereal aura" some people talk about for N's either since ISFP's, for example, can easily give this impression.)

    Oh - and as for 'variety of interests/pursuits' = N, I don't think I agree with that. I think there are a lot of N's who become incredibly focused/absorbed in just one interest (I'm thinking more of the academic types). Also, Michelle could very well be a woman who doesn't want to outwardly display all of her interests, and is pursuing more personal hobbies, vs. causes. She mentioned the oil painting/psychiatry interests, and she mentioned how she loves woodworking and building things. [And by the way -- my INFJ friend is quite adept at building things - more so than her husband - and she sews her own clothing and even made an upholstered mini chaise-lounge for her dog :-)...so sensory activities don't have to equate to S-types only.]
    No I don't think that N's must have a variety of interests (although if you see this in someone then they are probably an N of some sort). Rather I'm vaguely saying that N's seek change. Academic types for example are often doing research into previously unexplored areas. That is a type of change in itself, a change of the conventional knowledge.

    In Michelle's case if she does have a wide variety of hobbies, then it's not something that really shows. From what I have seen of her she is an S. She might be an N and just hiding it really well. On the other hand I am pretty reluctant to type someone as an N without sufficient evidence. My default for typing celebrities is S unless they show some definite sign of being an N. If you just judged Hollywood by the threads on this forum you'd guess that 3/4 of celebrities are N's, and half of those are INFJ's. From what I can tell a lot of other people seem to use N as the default and then consider someone an S as an afterthought. :rolli:
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  8. #18
    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
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    Well, those are good points about N's and INFJ's. I agree INFJ's would be hard to type, because they can change depending on the setting, as well as their mood - whether they're really confident and comfortable, or whether they're outside of their comfort zone and really in a hermit-like state. :-)

    The only times I think my friends and I could appear ES would be in a job interview, or when we were drunk. :-) But otherwise, in social settings, I think the N always shines through. Somehow we're always 'different'. So as far as appearing vastly different than INFJ - I guess in normal, everyday life, my friends and myself aren't like this. Mistaken for INTJ? Perhaps. ENFJ, maybe. But we are definitely like how I posted we were in my first post in this thread. But anyway...this is obviously just my own experience with 3 INFJ's that I know, and it really doesn't make sense to paint this across every single other INFJ out there. (I'm just the only one posting here...eek!).

    So - I definitely agree INFJ's aren't easy to type, but I do think there are a lot of rather consistent behavioral traits across the board, even if of course there are individual differences.

    I see your point on defaulting to S until proven otherwise. I guess for me, I tend to view N as more someone who 'speaks another language', or is on a different wavelength, from your average Joe. Just someone who might not be understood by the majority. I'm broadly generalizing, but you know, a lot of N's feel misunderstood and disassociated from most people, whereas I don't think S's feel that way.

  9. #19
    Dhampyr Economica's Avatar
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    Another interview! Part 1, Part 2

    In part 1, note the banter about tools and also her analogy between her work and her private life and the separation of church and state. Flags for N, methinks...?

    Incidentally, TLL, have you and ladypinkington seen Dangerous Liaisons? In it MP plays to perfection an INFJ who is seduced by an ENTP (played by John Malkovich).

    Also, the thing about her having been a clever student who skipped school and knew how to get good grades without putting in any effort - is that compatible with ISXJ?

  10. #20
    Glowy Goopy Goodness The_Liquid_Laser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cascademn View Post
    Well, those are good points about N's and INFJ's. I agree INFJ's would be hard to type, because they can change depending on the setting, as well as their mood - whether they're really confident and comfortable, or whether they're outside of their comfort zone and really in a hermit-like state. :-)

    The only times I think my friends and I could appear ES would be in a job interview, or when we were drunk. :-) But otherwise, in social settings, I think the N always shines through. Somehow we're always 'different'. So as far as appearing vastly different than INFJ - I guess in normal, everyday life, my friends and myself aren't like this. Mistaken for INTJ? Perhaps. ENFJ, maybe. But we are definitely like how I posted we were in my first post in this thread. But anyway...this is obviously just my own experience with 3 INFJ's that I know, and it really doesn't make sense to paint this across every single other INFJ out there. (I'm just the only one posting here...eek!).

    So - I definitely agree INFJ's aren't easy to type, but I do think there are a lot of rather consistent behavioral traits across the board, even if of course there are individual differences.
    I don't think you are going to find consistent behavioral traits from an INFJ unless you get to know them really well. One consistant trait of INFJ's is that they tend to be private and difficult to know well. That means to everyone else they will probably appear as another type, and you won't get to know that they are an INFJ unless you are a close friend, or at least trust you enough to open up a bit.

    Consider this quote. INFJ Profile
    [INFJ's] are, in fact, sometimes mistaken for extroverts because they appear so outgoing and are so genuinely interested in people -- a product of the Feeling function they most readily show to the world.
    I'm not saying that all INFJ's appear as extroverts though. Rather that their behavior is not conisistent from one INFJ to the next.

    I think a better way to describe this part of the INFJ comes from Kiersey. Keirsey Temperament Website: The 4 Temperaments
    ...friends who have known a [INFJ] for years may find sides emerging which come as a surprise. Not that they are inconsistent; Counselors value their integrity a great deal, but they have intricately woven, mysterious personalities which sometimes puzzle even them.
    INFJ's are complex, and hard to get to know. Their behavior can look quite different from one INFJ to the next. That is why they are so hard to type.

    I see your point on defaulting to S until proven otherwise. I guess for me, I tend to view N as more someone who 'speaks another language', or is on a different wavelength, from your average Joe. Just someone who might not be understood by the majority. I'm broadly generalizing, but you know, a lot of N's feel misunderstood and disassociated from most people, whereas I don't think S's feel that way.
    Any person who has a significantly high IQ is going to feel this way as well. The high IQ makes them feel different than everyone else. If the person is also an introvert then that is going to make them feel even more misunderstood and disassociated from people in general. It is quite common for high IQ IS's to feel this way.
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