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View Poll Results: What type is Barack Obama?

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  • ENTJ?

    4 19.05%
  • INTJ?

    3 14.29%
  • ENTP?

    2 9.52%
  • INTP?

    0 0%
  • ENFJ?

    8 38.10%
  • INFJ?

    0 0%
  • ENFP?

    2 9.52%
  • INFP?

    0 0%
  • ESTJ?

    0 0%
  • ISTJ

    0 0%
  • ESFJ?

    0 0%
  • ISFJ?

    0 0%
  • ESTP?

    1 4.76%
  • ISTP?

    1 4.76%
  • ESFP?

    0 0%
  • ISFP?

    0 0%
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Results 41 to 50 of 141

  1. #41
    Senior Member mwv6r's Avatar
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    It's not at all uncommon for ENFJs to put their foot in their mouth occasionally. Can't rule out ENFJ.

    I agree though that he doesn't quite fit the ENFJ mold or the ENFP mold. Maybe he's ENFx and the J/P is a toss-up.

    But I think for sure an E, for sure an F, for sure an N.

  2. #42
    Rainy Day Member Ingrid in grids's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stutterfly View Post
    Someone told me the other day they thought he was ENTP ..
    Ah, I see now.

  3. #43
    Dhampyr Economica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stutterfly View Post
    Ah, I see now.
    Seeing as how you were unable to understand how the ENTP typing came about and how some of us have since reasonably argued the typing, methinks it would reflect better on your judgment if you were to provide some counter-arguments instead of the above witticism that seems to imply our arguments are unworthy of response.

  4. #44
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    This isn't aimed at you Eco, but I've yet to see any proof of Ne from anyone saying Obama's ENTP.

    Here's more information I found. Does this or does this not sound ExxJ, specifically EJ soaked in Fe?

    Interestingly, a while back, the Unit for the Study of Personality in Politics, at St. John's University and the College of St. Benedict, did a professional personality profile "for anticipating Obama's likely leadership style as chief executive, thereby providing a basis for inferring the character and tenor of a prospective Obama presidency." The study concluded:

    "The combination of Ambitious, Accommodating, and Outgoing patterns in Obama's profile suggests a confident conciliator personality composite. Leaders with this personality prototype, though self-assured and ambitious, are characteristically gracious, considerate, and benevolent. They are energetic, charming, and agreeable, with a special knack for settling differences, favoring mediation and compromise over force or coercion as a strategy for resolving conflict. They are driven primarily by a need for achievement and also have strong affiliation needs, but a low need for power."
    Source--Ignore that it's by Chuck Norris.

    OK, now this is criticism towards Obama about how he makes his decisions:

    Obama wouldn't say where he stood because he was afraid it would be a wrong or unpopular stand...
    Obama's inability to draw and hold hard lines is the primary reason he repeatedly struggles with -- and caves and morphs into -- the polls or people in front of him...It's one thing to be political, but it's quite another to be a chronic people pleaser under pressure.
    Are those the types of criticisms that would be leveled against an ENTP?

    Here's that original personality profile done by St. John University's Unit for the Study of Personality in Politics.

    His pattern is Ambitious/confident and Accommodating/cooperative. Once again, would such obviously Fe traits as accomodating and cooperative be so distinct in an ENTP? Compare to George Bush and Al Gore were their "rational" and "logical" traits are much more prominent:

    George W. Bush’s major personality-based leadership strengths are his skills in connecting with critical constituencies and mobilizing popular support, and his ability to retain a following and his self-confidence in the face of adversity. His major limitations include propensities for a superficial grasp of complex issues, being easily bored, acting impulsively, and favoring personal connections, friendship, and loyalty over competence in his staffing decisions and appointments.

    Al Gore’s major personality-based leadership strengths are his conscientiousness, a detail-oriented ability to craft specific policies, and low susceptibility to ethical misconduct. His major limitations are his disdain for social interaction, his lack of spontaneity and personableness (with an associated deficit of important political skills crucial for mobilizing and retaining popular support), and his self-defeating potential for dogmatically pursuing personal policy preferences despite legislative or public disapproval.
    OK, fine let's even say he's Ne-dom. The next closest president to being Ne-dom is Bill Clinton. Surely, Obama's personality profile would be closer to Bill Clinton's if they're both Ne-doms. Here's Clinton's profile from the same organization. To me, this sounds more ENTP than ENFP, but whatever.

    "The Asserting-Outgoing personality is highly ambitious and self-promoting, driven by a need to achieve fame and public recognition. A distinctive feature of this personality composite is an erotic and seductive orientation. For these personalities, sexual prowess serves to enhance self-worth. These individuals may have an indifferent conscience and aloofness to the truth, which, if brought to their attention, is likely to elicit nonchalant innocence. They tend to be undisciplined, traveling an erratic course of successes, failures, and abandoned hopes, and are driven by a need for excitement, stimulation, and challenge.
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
    Social Penetration Theory 1
    Social Penetration Theory 2
    Social Penetration Theory 3

  5. #45
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    ENFJ.
    His Fe and Se is obvious. and I can see Ni as well.

  6. #46
    Dhampyr Economica's Avatar
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    proteanmix, very quick reply: You're basing your verdict mostly on other people's interpretations of the man, correct?

    I prefer to base the typing on his actions and statements directly. Which actions and statements (e.g. taken from one of his books) do you find suggest ENFJ?

  7. #47
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Economica View Post
    proteanmix, very quick reply: You're basing your verdict mostly on other people's interpretations of the man, correct?

    I prefer to base the typing on his actions and statements directly. Which actions and statements (e.g. taken from one of his books) do you find suggest ENFJ?
    I am basing my assessments on his actions. Obviously I don't know him personally so I have to rely on second hand accounts--as does everyone else. I just don't see any actions that are ENTP over ENFJ.

    Here's an article from the New York Times with a first hand account from Barack and Michelle about their marriage. I had some excerpts from his book in the old thread about his type.

    In reading it, I still don't see ENTP. I think those who claim ENTP are overinflating the use of Fe in ENTPs, to the detriment of NeTi. In reading this article I see a very ambitious and determined person, the type of ambition usually associated with EJs, not EPs. I think the relationship between the Obamas is a very loving and structured relationship between two extroverted judgers the rituals they have in place, i.e. date nights, how upset Barack was during the beginning of his candidacy for president about how Michelle was portrayed in the media. Even during his days as a state delegate and what Michelle says Barack ultimately wanted to achieve, what his goals were, why she was attracted to him to begin with. Yes, he had grandiose ideas but just because someone has big ideas doesn't automatically indicate they're some type of ENxP. I feel like this is one of the reasons why so many people think celebrities are some type of NP, because they always stick idea-creation in the domain of Ne.

    My interpretation of what this means is that he's always been a quite goal-oriented person who didn't just "fall" into politics as I would assume an ENTP would...he truly believed he could be a change agent for social transformation. Even the channels through which he's done this are very plotted and "resume building" so to speak (Ivy League schools, lawyer, editor of law review, state delegate, community organizer, senator, etc).

    This makes me wonder how do people think Fe behaves in the real world. It's almost like people don't recognized Fe in action. I guess the same way I get complete Fe blasts from Obama is the same way some people think it's Ne?
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
    Social Penetration Theory 1
    Social Penetration Theory 2
    Social Penetration Theory 3

  8. #48
    Dhampyr Economica's Avatar
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    Another quick reply:

    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    I am basing my assessments on his actions. Obviously I don't know him personally so I have to rely on second hand accounts--as does everyone else.
    No, we don't have to rely on second hand accounts; we have video of him as well as his own written (and quoted) words to go by.

    Regarding Ne, do you agree that the speech to which I linked in post #32 demonstrates a stand-up comedian degree of Ne that would be highly unusual for an ENFJ?

  9. #49
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    I've always read Obama as Fe intensive, with Ni underlying it and a strong dose of Ti.

    Just a study of his election campaign, it was very clear he knew just how to navigate publicly all the various social minefields laid in his way (he avoided quite a number of traps that someone like McCain would have plowed through tactically). He seems very very sensitive to that sort of undercurrent and when he addressed issues, he would drop into measure methodical Ti to explain his reasoning. The Ni is the ability to detect the various spins/perspectives that underlay the various people he had to interact with.

    He habitually avoided lashing out, going on an attack, etc; he was very aware when McCain/Palin fired shots and would choose to first ignore, then finally address and go right back to talking points.

    The guy is just the quintessential diplomat.
    That's not an ENTP.
    I'm not sure if he's ENFJ but he definitely possesses many of the typical functions of one, just with a very solid Ti underlying it all.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  10. #50
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Economica View Post
    Another quick reply:

    No, we don't have to rely on second hand accounts; we have video of him as well as his own written (and quoted) words to go by.

    Regarding Ne, do you agree that the speech to which I linked in post #32 demonstrates a stand-up comedian degree of Ne that would be highly unusual for an ENFJ?
    I don't read that as Ne. I don't see Ne as the only function that can crack a joke or make witticisms. It also depends on how you expect humor to manifest itself from an ENFJ. I think 6:45 "My greatest strength is humility. My greatest weakness: I'm a little too awesome" and 9:45 the "I'm not a celebrity" is a nice crash course in ENFJ megalomania.

    Annndddd....I see him reading from a paper without the extemporaneous delivery I'd expect from an ENTP.
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
    Social Penetration Theory 1
    Social Penetration Theory 2
    Social Penetration Theory 3

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