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  1. #1
    Ginkgo
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    Default Ender's Game *SPOILERS*

    I have read the books several times over, and I even have spark notes on hand-

    Ender

    Ender is the youngest of the three Wiggin children. Ender has the compassion of Valentine, his older sister, but he also has the ruthlessness of Peter, his older brother. Ender does not wish to cause harm to anyone, yet when he is confronted with a pack of students led by the bully Stilson, Ender knows what he has to do. At age six he beats Stilson to death, although he does not know it at the time. Ender can be a killer like his brother. But Ender hates himself for that quality. Other people put him in situations where his negative side emerges, but Ender always wishes for events to be resolved without violence. His compassion is his strongest trait, and it binds people to him; his ruthlessness wins their unswerving faith in him as a commander.

    Ender could be seen as a victim, a brilliant child manipulated by adults into playing a game he never wanted to play, but such an explanation is too simplistic. Ender is brilliant enough to understand the manipulation and knows that it is necessary. In the same way that Graff manipulates Ender, Ender manipulates Bean while he is commander of Dragon Army. Ender is a child in name only, and he represents the best that a human being can be, given the context. There is no part of him that desires control, and when he has it, he wishes only to avoid the abuses that he sees others commit. But Ender learns that in life we are sometimes forced to play games that we would rather not play, and that sometimes winning must be second to nothing else. Still, he manages to retain his humanity and his compassion wins out in the end, as he sets out to repay his debt to the buggers.

    At first I thought he was INTP, but because of his selflessness and compassion, I'm inclined to think he's INFP. He even preserves the Bugger Queen out of sympathy.

    Valentine

    Valentine is Ender's older sister, and she does what she can to protect him from Peter, their sadistic older brother. Valentine has much of Ender's compassion, but she does not have Peter's ruthlessness. However, as the story progresses, Valentine learns that the differences between the three siblings are not as great as they seem. She never ceases believing that Ender is the best of them, and she loves him unconditionally. In fact, her love helps save Ender when the pointlessness of Battle School threatens to break him. But as she begins working with Peter to transform the political system on earth, using her pseudonym Demosthenes, Valentine learns that there is a part of her that enjoys control.

    Although she does not want to manipulate people for the sake of manipulation, like Peter does, Valentine knows that she is intelligent enough to make a major difference and sees no reason why she should not. However, she would never wish to do damage in her attempt to change the world. Valentine, like Ender, would never deliberately harm someone else. Unlike Ender, however, she falls prey to the irresistible urge to power. But that urge would never take her down Peter's road of power at any cost.

    INFJ?

    Peter

    Valentine and Ender's older brother, Peter is completely lacking in the compassion that the other two have and has only ruthlessness in its place. He is a sadistic brother and it is unclear at many points whether or not he is considering killing Ender and Valentine. Peter is the mastermind behind the actions that he and Valentine take in world political affairs, and he is motivated by his thirst for power. His lack of compassion makes Peter a man devoid of humanity. He acts solely for his own benefit and, although he has a profound understanding of others, uses his knowledge only to probe their weaknesses to his own advantage.

    Peter eventually gains power over the entire earth and becomes the Hegemon, the leader of the world. He is able to do so peacefully, although this is not necessary for him, it was merely the most expedient way to gain power. The difference between Peter and Ender, although it sometimes seems slight, is in reality a fundamental difference. Other people matter too much for Ender to do willingly endanger them, but Peter takes the opposite path. He is concerned only with himself, and although this leads him to be the ruler of all humans on earth, it makes Peter as far from human as possible. It is the nature of power, and the effect it has on people, that creates the resemblance between Peter and Ender.

    XNTJ?

    Any thoughts?

  2. #2
    Senior Member Happyman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mystic Tater View Post
    I have read the books several times over, and I even have spark notes on hand
    OK, first of all I'd like to say that it's probably the top10 most underrated book in English literature in the last 20 years. I mean it's not stylistically innovative like Joyce's/Pynchon's/Proust's work, yet it has a drama and emotional level of let's say 'Grapes of Wrath' by Steinbeck and amazing psychological depth. It also has an amazing construction, a very surprising ending (which I've seen through, only because there were not enough pages left in the end to make anything else possible ) and (AND!) it touches the most universal subjects of human existance, reaching the level of an almost Greek tragedy: utilitarianism vs. individual morality, necessary evil, siblings' conflict etc, etc, etc.

    So I'm happy somebody has mentioned it.

    As for the types...

    Quote Originally Posted by Mystic Tater View Post
    Ender
    At first I thought he was INTP, but because of his selflessness and compassion, I'm inclined to think he's INFP. He even preserves the Bugger Queen out of sympathy.
    I'm not sure if he's 'F'. I see him more like an INTJ. He's unbelievably cold, when it comes to choosing (everytime he fights he calmly decides what's the best solution, he's not touched by hatred, he's also very analytical, yet decisive). Also many INTJs have quite strong ethical foundation (but yeah, the compassion makes you think he can be F).

    Quote Originally Posted by Mystic Tater View Post
    Valentine
    INFJ?
    I'd agree very much.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mystic Tater View Post
    Peter
    XNTJ?
    Humpf... He's a perfect manipulator and knows EVERYTHING about how the society functions. I could imagine him being a very unhealthy ENFJ. Yet the longing for power is definitely ENTJs' like. He's not INTJ, I'm pretty sure. I mean he seems quite introverted, but he's all for external world, power - not for implementing some great idea (like INTJ would). He also needs his sister to admire him a lot - I think that can be read somewhere there, between the lines. I'd go with ENxJ.
    "Act as though it was impossible to fail."
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  3. #3
    Ginkgo
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    Quote Originally Posted by Happyman View Post

    So I'm happy somebody has mentioned it.

    As for the types...
    No problem.


    I'm not sure if he's 'F'. I see him more like an INTJ. He's unbelievably cold, when it comes to choosing (everytime he fights he calmly decides what's the best solution, he's not touched by hatred, he's also very analytical, yet decisive). Also many INTJs have quite strong ethical foundation (but yeah, the compassion makes you think he can be F).


    I view Ender as having strong Ne because of his battle tactics. He intentionally goes against the status quo to confuse his opponents. It is also apparent that he is very liberal when commanding because he often lets those under him make their own decisions.

    He also went out of his way to create a conflict-free environment by getting to know his team-mates on a personal level. He would even sacrifice his own time to help others grow.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Happyman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mystic Tater View Post
    I view Ender as having strong Ne because of his battle tactics. He intentionally goes against the status quo to confuse his opponents. It is also apparent that he is very liberal when commanding because he often lets those under him make their own decisions.

    He also went out of his way to create a conflict-free environment by getting to know his team-mates on a personal level. He would even sacrifice his own time to help others grow.
    I've just head a great Eureka moment!

    I think he's an ISTP!
    That would explain all I've said about him, how he behaves during the fights, it would also explain great tactical thinking! And empowerment of his 'soldiers'. Two greatest generals of II WW were ISTPs: Patton and Rommel. They were not 'whole map strategists' like ENTJ Eisenhower, yet they were unbeaten on smaller scale.
    And as for his 'F-ness', well author just had to do him more likeable.
    "Act as though it was impossible to fail."
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    I started a real blog!

  5. #5
    Was E.laur Laurie's Avatar
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    I love the books ender's game and ender's shadow.

    Bean: INTJ
    Ender: INFP (INFJ?)
    Peter: ENTJ

    Ender making the choices he makes drives me INSANE. Look at his marriage.

    I'm going to have to read them for the 15th time each again to reanalyze.

  6. #6
    Ginkgo
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    Quote Originally Posted by Happyman View Post
    I've just head a great Eureka moment!

    I think he's an ISTP!
    That would explain all I've said about him, how he behaves during the fights, it would also explain great tactical thinking! And empowerment of his 'soldiers'. Two greatest generals of II WW were ISTPs: Patton and Rommel. They were not 'whole map strategists' like ENTJ Eisenhower, yet they were unbeaten on smaller scale.
    And as for his 'F-ness', well author just had to do him more likeable.
    The author, Orson Scott Card, actually based Ender off of his own son.
    Card strikes me as an INTP.

    I don't think Ender was an S because the author described his test taking abilities and computer hacking skills as intuitive. Ender was also described as "being able to look at the big picture", and "less concerned with the details". On the other hand, Bean had even higher scores, and he was able to hack into the Battle School's entire infrastructure.

    Bean is definitely INTJ.

  7. #7
    Junior Member saxman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mystic Tater View Post
    At first I thought he was INTP, but because of his selflessness and compassion, I'm inclined to think he's INFP. He even preserves the Bugger Queen out of sympathy.
    Ender is definitely INFP. He usually knows what people are thinking or trying to achieve, and can figure things out better using his intuition than by procedure. He cares a lot about what things mean or how people feel and his own reactions to it, and is disappointed when the only solution he has is to hurt people. He can lead people effectively but isn't defined by that, and in fact doesn't really define himself as anything but is able to adapt himself as the situation requires. He recognizes when people are his friends, but also relates them to the game and how they play into its objective. He knows when not to play the game, and will find his own reasons when to play even if it means making people think they manipulated him into doing it, which most of the people he cares about end up having to do. He is isolated, and has to be that way, because the only way to save the world and the people he cares about, is to sacrifice himself, silently.

    If broken down by the components...

    He's an introvert because most of his world lives inside of his head, and his interaction with the outside world is done with care and thought. He has to find meaning with his relationships with people, so as a result, even though he may encounter a lot of people, there are only a few that he will consider friends, and only after a warm up period of discovering what they mean to him.

    He's intuitive because he will often ignore concrete information he is given, like rules or what people say, because he knows something else is going on. The intuition actually plays a large role in the bugger war, where the speed of the singular bugger thought process requires that Ender act intuitively rather than analytically. He also view the world imaginatively, and begins viewing it all as part of "the game".

    He's a feeler, and durng several parts in the story, they put him in emotional situations to help drive him. He knows he is being manipulated, and has to come up with his own reasons for his emotions, but either way the end result is the same. They also had to trick him into playing out the war as a game, because they needed the drive of his compassion, but knew that would be his weakness if he actually knew he was killing an entire species.

    He's perceptive. When others were using formations, he was looking for new ways to achieve his goals. He only ended up using a formation when it made sense to him, not because the process told him too. The rules of "the game" were fine as long as they didn't get in his way. If it became too apparent that the rules were being used to manipulate him and, more importantly, causing harm to people or things he cared about, then he'd find a way to just destroy the game even if it meant the superiors would be disappointed. And of course they weren't because they had actually wanted him to do what he did, and although they were happy with him Ender would have no part of the celebration.

  8. #8
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    Ender - INFJ
    Valentine - INFP
    Peter - ENTJ
    Bean - INTJ
    Achilles - ENTJ
    Petra - ENTJ

  9. #9
    Ginkgo
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evan View Post
    Ender - INFJ
    Valentine - INFP
    Peter - ENTJ
    Bean - INTJ
    Achilles - ENTJ
    Petra - ENTJ
    What is your reasoning?
    Actually, Petra strikes me as more of an ENTP. But maybe not.

  10. #10
    Was E.laur Laurie's Avatar
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    Evan, that's an awful lot of ENTJs.

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