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Tupac and Pierre Trudeau

sakuraba

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7w8
One other thing about Pac, he had a poetry book called "The Rose That Grew From Concrete", and all the amazon reviews I'm reading claim it is filled with passion and emotion (Fi). Take that for whatever it is worth...

So what? Fedor Emelianenko (strongest fighter in the world) is a blatant ESTJ 8w9 and he has a book full of drawings he made of innocent looking cartoons and babies.

This is Fi-last for you. Expressing the Fi in privacy (drawings, poetry, etc). It's not like Tupac himself published that book. It was his private book of poetry (which is excouraged in art schools, once again) and when he died, someone pimped it out to made some quick money off it.
 

redacted

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Nov 28, 2007
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I'm guessing your doing the same thing as dissonance did... "I'm an xNFP and I like Tupac's music so I will try to convince others he was the same type as me".

do you notice the irony there? lol.

i'm not an xNFP btw.
 

Thursday

Earth Exalted
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sp/sx
GZA, I dont know how any one in their right mind could say Tupac was introverted.

I'm guessing your doing the same thing as dissonance did... "I'm an xNFP and I like Tupac's music so I will try to convince others he was the same type as me".

Ugh! Some ppl are so naive. Look further into his character. He's described as a isolated, autonomous, independant, critical, workohalic, no times for mistakes, would lash out at others when they messed up(perfectionist), competitive. All typical NT traits.

Uh huh
Although INxJ's and ExTJ's are probably the most notorious perfectionists
 

sakuraba

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-"Love or Work. I only have time for one. Right now I'm in love with my work" - 2pac... Paraphrased, not an exact quote. Very NT. Read his interviews. Theyre all over the place, do a google search.
Perhaps more than any other style, NT's live in their work.



-SP and NT are utilitarian. SJ and NF are co-operative. 2pac was utilitarian. "By any means necessary". Very defiant.
To accept an authority figure based solely on the fact that he is an authority figure, to the NT is ludicrous. The fact that a person proclaims something, whatever his or her title, reputation, or credentials, leaves the NT indifferent. This tends to make others see the NT as arrogant, and unusually individualistic. An unfortunate signal the NT unconsciously sends out is that those around him are intellectually inadequate.





-Take a look at photos... He always has a detached demeanor even amongst close friends. Typical of NT.
The NT speculates about the possible motivation and thoughts of those he is with, trying to fit his experiences into some system he carries around in his head. In fact, he may be so occupied with trying to figure out what is happening, as it is happening, that he misses living the event. At times, the NT seems to stand beside, instead of in the stream of life, seeming to watch bemusedly as the river flows by -- a little distanced, a little detached, a little uninvolved.
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I could see either ENTP or ENTJ. He has the rebellioness and hate for authority like ENTPs. Had a generally serious demeanor and vision of the future like ENTJ. In his acting roles he comes off similar to Al Pacino(ESTJ sx/sp?). He's also known for having a big mouth...blunt, speaking without caring what others think.

I guess both ENTJ and ENTP can be charming. He has a optimistic yet angry outlook. Again, could be either. Would like to hear others opinions here.
 

arcticangel02

To the top of the world
Joined
Oct 5, 2007
Messages
892
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eNFP
Another point to consider, perhaps, Sakuraba, you have to take into consideration that the world he lived in was very much a ETJ sort of culture - wouldn't it make more sense that, as an INFP, he would be forced to develop his Te, just to survive?

It seems to me that an ENTJ, although capable of developing his feeling side, would really have very little cause to do so in that culture... it's not something that is valued much at all.

It is not unlikely for an introvert, even an introverted feeler, to show an arrogant and isolated face to the world - they are certainly more likely to be isolated than ENTPs, at least. In those photos he looks slightly awkward and uncomfortable - like he's 'supposed' to be in those situations more than he really wants to be. That strikes me more as an I thing than an NT thing. NT isolation is more of a distracted, thoughtful sort - like they're concocting grand schemes in their mind and people are just much less interesting than that...

Just some thoughts...
 

GZA

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do you notice the irony there? lol.

i'm not an xNFP btw.
And I'm not really much of a Tupac fan. I'm definitely not going "I like Tupac and want to be like him so therefor I hope he is my type". I do think you have a lot of great points, he does have a lot of NT traits, but the interviews I watched (and even some of the points you made) came off as NFish or are things that apply to both NT's and NF's, just in slightly different ways. I'm kind of on the ENTX/INFX fence, but I'll just take your word for it for now that he may well have been ENTX

But I just have one more thing to say about his poetry/introversion. I got the impression he was introverted because some of his poems expressed a deep need for solitude and introspection.

Whatever, I'm done.
 

sakuraba

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But I just have one more thing to say about his poetry/introversion. I got the impression he was introverted because some of his poems expressed a deep need for solitude and introspection.

Whatever, I'm done.


DUH!

The core trait of all NT's is a strong need for AUTONOMY. NT's are not exactly people-persons. Even the most extraverted NT's will tell you that.

To suggest 2pac is an introvert of any kind is like saying Madonna in her wild days was an introvert. :doh:
 

sakuraba

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Another point to consider, perhaps, Sakuraba, you have to take into consideration that the world he lived in was very much a ETJ sort of culture


Except you're wrong.... He didn't live in a ETJ sort of culture.

Quite the opposite... As Ive already mentioned he always attended ART SCHOOLS. For acting, poety, writing, etc. If anything, that would be considered an NF culture.

Which would explain why he might seem to have NFish traits even though he isn't NF.
 

arcticangel02

To the top of the world
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And yet not one of those photos that you posted above would be anything like I'd imagine an 'NF' environment to be...

Anyway, let's get the facts straight, lifted straight from Wikipedia:

Struggle and incarceration surrounded Shakur from an early age. His godfather, Elmer "Geronimo" Pratt, a high ranking Black Panther, was convicted of murdering a school teacher during a 1968 robbery, although his sentence was later overturned. His stepfather, Mutulu Shakur, spent four years at large on the FBI's Ten Most Wanted Fugitives list beginning in 1982, when Shakur was a pre-teen. Mutulu was wanted in part for having helped his sister Assata Shakur (also known as Joanne Chesimard), Tupac's godmother, to escape from a penitentiary in New Jersey, where she had been incarcerated for allegedly shooting a state trooper to death in 1973. Mutulu was caught in 1986 and imprisoned for the robbery of a Brinks armored truck in which two police officers and a guard were killed. Tupac had a half-sister, Sekyiwa, two years his junior, and an older stepbrother, Mopreme "Komani" Shakur, who appeared on many of his recordings.

At the age of twelve, Shakur enrolled in Harlem's famous "127th Street Ensemble." His first major role with this acting troupe was as Travis in A Raisin in the Sun. In 1984, his family relocated to Baltimore, Maryland. After completing his second year at Paul Lawrence Dunbar High School he transferred to the Baltimore School for the Arts, where he studied acting, poetry, jazz, and ballet. He performed in Shakespeare plays, and in the role of the Mouse King in The Nutcracker. Shakur, accompanied by one of his friends, Dana "Mouse" Smith, as his beatbox, won most of the many rap competitions that he participated in and was considered to be the best rapper in his school. Although he lacked trendy clothing, he was one of the most popular kids in his school because of his sense of humor, superior rapping skills, and ability to mix in with all crowds. He developed a close friendship with a young Jada Pinkett (later Jada Pinkett Smith) that lasted until Shakur's death. In the documentary Tupac: Resurrection, Shakur says, "Jada is my heart. She will be my friend for my whole life," and Smith calls Shakur "one of my best friends. He was like a brother. It was beyond friendship for us. The type of relationship we had, you only get that once in a lifetime." A poem written by Shakur titled "Jada" appears in his book, The Rose That Grew From Concrete, which also includes a poem dedicated to Smith called "The Tears in Cupid's Eyes".

In June 1988, Shakur and his family moved once again, this time to Marin City, California, where he attended Tamalpais High School. He joined the Ensemble Theater Company (ETC) to pursue his career in entertainment. His mother's crack addiction led him to move into Leila Steinberg's home with his friend Ray Luv at the age of seventeen and he eventually dropped out of high school. Leila Steinberg acted as a literary mentor to Shakur, an avid reader. Steinberg has kept copies of the books that he read, which include J.D. Salinger's Catcher in the Rye, Jamaica Kincaid's At the Bottom of the River, Herman Melville's Moby-Dick, Eileen Southern's Music of Black Americans, and the feminist writings of Alice Walker and Robin Morgan. Most of these books were read before the age of twenty. It has been said that Shakur was, in fact, more well-read and intellectually well-rounded at that age than the average student in the first year class of most Ivy League institutions. In 1989, Leila Steinberg organized a concert with Shakur's group, Strictly Dope. The concert lead to him being signed with Atron Gregory who set him up with Digital Underground. In 1990, he was hired as a back-up dancer and roadie for up-and-coming rap group Digital Underground.

By any account, his childhood was not a peaceful one - he grew up around criminals of all sorts, and I assume his family condoned that sort of behaviour - even encouraged it?

He seems to go completely against the grain of his family's values when he joins the acting troupe, and it isn't until he's about 15 that he actually goes to a School for the Arts. A person's character has been quite firmly affected by their circumstances and familial values well before they turn 15. Although ENTJs most certainly can be NF-like and 'arty' if they are raised in that sort of gentle, NF environment, I would hardly call Tupac's circumstances one fitting that description.

Also, he is described as having an 'ability to mix in with all crowds'. That seems a lot more like an NFP type of flexibility/adaptability than an ENTJs arrogance/isolation.

Notice the difference in description between his sociability in this time period, as opposed to later on. Here, in this 'NF environment', he is 'one of the most popular kids in school'. Later on, when he is immersed in this world of rappers (I assume it's an ETJ sort of culture, but maybe more EST? This is just a guess from me, TBH), even you've said he is 'isolated', uncomfortable.

To me, that seems like a clear indication that he is in fact an NF, albeit with a strongly developed T.

As far as the introversion/extraversion thing goes, the fact that he was an avid, well-read reader (meaning he actually did read, not just simply enjoyed to read) seems to echo of a personality naturally more inward focused than outwards.
 

alicia91

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Nov 20, 2007
Messages
671
Don't know about Tupac, but I think Pierre was an INTJ. Why? I shook his hand in 1983 and that's the vibe I got. ;) (just making sure I live up to sakuraba's high expectations of me)
 

the state i am in

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tupac seems obviously enfp. when he gest enthused there's no other type he could be, it's not the same type of energy as an entj. he was interested in entjs and tried to learn from them, yes, the fucking machiavelli! album title, etc. but the gushing enthusiasm for people and possibilities is allllll enfp.

listen to him talk about thug life, he wants to be an initiator, he needs to get things going, connect with kids, etc. the documentary about him makes me have tons of respect for him, very complex and creative person.

also, if you have money and fame and are on death row records, you fuck lots of bitches. if you didn't want to fuck lots of bitches, you wouldn't be on death row. that's not type that's being a 20-something male up from the gutter trying to assert power, dominance, and desire for pleasure. as snoop said in one of the girls gone wild video advertisements, "it's a lifestyle."
 

Synarch

Once Was
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On another note: Notice how 2Pac NEVER has the depressed/melancholy thing going on like NF's do. Despite being shot, robbed, back stabbed, put in jail for a crime he didnt commit, etc etc... he never once seems depressed/melancholic.

Sounds pretty depressed to me. ENFP, but hard because he had to be. RIP.

"So Many Tears" by Tupac

I shall not fear no man but God
Though I walk through the valley of death
I shed so many tears (if I should die before I wake)
Please God walk with me (grab a nigga and take me to Heaven)

Back in elementary, I thrived on misery
Left me alone I grew up amongst a dyin breed
Inside my mind couldn't find a place to rest
until I got that Thug Life tatted on my chest
Tell me can you feel me? I'm not livin in the past, you wanna last
Be tha first to blast, remember Kato
No longer with us he's deceased
Call on the sirens, seen him murdered in the streets
Now rest in peace
Is there heaven for a G? Remember me
So many homies in the cemetery, shed so many tears

Ahh, I suffered through the years, and shed so many tears..
Lord, I lost so many peers, and shed so many tears

Now that I'm strugglin in this business, by any means
Label me greedy gettin green, but seldom seen
And fuck the world cause I'm cursed, I'm havin visions
of leavin here in a hearse, God can you feel me?
Take me away from all the pressure, and all the pain
Show me some happiness again, I'm goin blind
I spend my time in this cell, ain't livin well
I know my destiny is Hell, where did I fail?
My life is in denial, and when I die,
baptized in eternal fire I'll shed so many tears

Lord, I suffered through the years, and shed so many tears..
Lord, I lost so many peers, and shed so many tears

Now I'm lost and I'm weary, so many tears
I'm suicidal, so don't stand near me
My every move is a calculated step, to bring me closer
to embrace an early death, now there's nothin left
There was no mercy on the streets, I couldn't rest
I'm barely standin, bout to go to pieces, screamin peace
And though my soul was deleted, I couldn't see it
I had my mind full of demons tryin to break free
They planted seeds and they hatched, sparkin the flame
inside my brain like a match, such a dirty game
No memories, just a misery
Paintin a picture of my enemies killin me, in my sleep
Will I survive til the mo'nin, to see the sun
Please Lord forgive me for my sins, cause here I come...

Lord, I suffered through the years (God) and shed so many tears..
God, I lost so many peers, and shed so many tears

Lord knows I.. tried, been a witness to homicide
Seen drivebys takin lives, little kids die
Wonder why as I walk by
Broken-hearted as I glance at the chalk line, gettin high
This ain't the life for me, I wanna change
But ain't no future right for me, I'm stuck in the game
I'm trapped inside a maze
See this Tanqueray influenced me to gettin crazy
Disillusioned lately, I've been really wantin babies
so I could see a part of me that wasn't always shady
Don't trust my lady, cause she's a product of this poison
I'm hearin noises, think she fuckin all my boys, can't take no more
I'm fallin to the floor; beggin for the Lord to let me in
to Heaven's door -- shed so many tears
(Dear God, please let me in)

Lord, I've lost so many years, and shed so many tears..
I lost so many peers, and shed so many tears
Lord, I suffered through the years, and shed so many tears..
God, I lost so many peers, and shed so many tears
 

GirlFromMars

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Jun 2, 2009
Messages
325
MBTI Type
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I'm definitely going with NF for Tupac, but that's all I can really say.
 

LotsOfHeart

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Feb 14, 2009
Messages
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INFJ
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4
In my mind Tupac was probably an ENFJ.

First of all, he had lots of friends in the industry, his cliques, homies, etc, and placed great emphasis and importance on them. Sounds extroverted to me.

His lyrics are extremely intuitive, he was always predicting the future. I would say intuitive open and shut case.

His lyrics and personality are generally extremely emotional...Without question a feeler in my book.

I also see him as a J...He made decisions and stood firmly by them...Seems like a judging personality to me.

He also believed his friends couldn't be friends with his enemies, and seemed to struggle with seeing things outside of his only viewpoint/social circle's viewpoint. Also, he was a leader, pretty charismatic as well.

Seems ENFJ to me.
 
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