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Blackwater's List of Controversial Philosopher Typings

S

Sniffles

Guest
I would type Rousseau as INFP. I've read many of his works, and several biographies of the man, and Im currently working on the latest one Jean-Jacques Rousseau: Restless Genius by Leo Damrosch - which goes into considerable detail about his personality.
 

SolitaryWalker

Tenured roisterer
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Apr 23, 2007
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3,504
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INTP
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5w6
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so/sx
A sort of preliminary concensus seems to have formed regarding the types of great thinkers and philosophers. - While I greatly appreciate the interest and concensus, I simutaneously wish to see if I might be able to shake up some of the established definitions a little. This list will primarily be controversial to those of you who don't believe that E's and/or S's can do philosophy and of course, to those of you who belive all philosophers to be INTP as well ;)

Some of these claims are very well researched on my party, though these are primarily the ones of the Greek/Roman period. I am bothered by the persistant claim that Socrates was an Introvert, which has seemingly very little evidence to back it up.

Contradictions to this typing, as well as all the others are very welcome, especially if they are argued and not just corrected without any attempt to construct a case for the correction in question. - Happy reading :)

Heraclitus INxJ
Parmenides INTP
Empedocles ENTP
Buddha INFJ
Socrates ENTP
Diogenes ESTP
Plato INFJ
Xenophon ISTJ
Aristotle ENTJ
Epicurus ISTP
Cicero ENTJ
Galen ENTJ
Marcus Aurelius ISFJ
Origen ENTP
Tertullian INTJ
Augustine INFP
Milton INFP
Aquinas INFJ
Dante INFJ
Plotinus INFJ
Averroes ENTx
Muhammad ENTJ
St. Francis ISFP
Leibniz INTP
Descartes INTP
Machiavelli ENTP
Spinoza INTP
Voltaire ENTP
Da Vinci ENTP
Calvin INTJ
Erasmus xNxJ
Bruno ENTP
Locke INTx
Hobbes ISTJ
Diderot ENTP
Tocqueville ENTP
Hume ENTP
Kant INTP
Hegel INTP
Franklin ENTP
Jefferson INTP
Rousseau ISFP
Montesquieu xNTP
Newton INTP
Rousseau ISFP
Goethe xNFJ
Kierkegaard INFP
Nietzsche INTJ
Schopenhauer INFJ
Wagner ENxJ
Oscar Wilde ENTP
Benard Shaw ENTP
Marx INTP
Heidegger INTJ
Hannah Arendt ENTP
Freud ENTJ
Adler INTJ
Jung INFJ (I know he identifies himself as INTP)
Fromm ENFJ
Horney INFP
Sartre INTJ
de Beauvoir INFJ
Camus INFP
Husserl INTP
Briggs INFP
Keirsey INTP
Bertrand Russel ENTP
H.J. Eysenck ENTJ
I. Yalom INFJ
Rand INTJ
Dennett ENTP
Foucault ENTP
Derrida INTP
Deleuze INTP
Lacan ENTP
Luc Ferry ENTP
Richard Rorty INTJ
Popper INTx
Einstein INTP
Habermas INTP
Richard Dawkins ENTP
Christopher Hitchens INTJ
Zizek ENxP
Steven Pinker ENTP
Bluewing INTP
Blackwater ENTP

Justify the conclusion that Camus is an INFP.
 

Venom

Babylon Candle
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there is an overwhelming Ti bias here that needs a swift kick in the ass:

Newton, Jefferson: INTJ

Kant, definitely INTJ.

He's practically known as the guy who REMOVED reason in order to bring back faith and morality...there is Fi at work in the background. Nietzsche especially points out that Kant had "other motives" beyond simple reason.

I also question Dawkins's type. My guess is ENTJ. He's consistently produces books. He is constantly focused on his one mission of "rational atheism". Constrasting him to Dennett (who i can totally see the ENTP), Dawkins seems rather TJ. When on TV with friendlies he seems quite extraverted. on tv with "enemies" hes VERY reserved and concise with his words.

I also question Locke's typing as a INTX. In his early years he was very unquestioning and basically parotted the hobbesian status quo of conservatives, where the people were inherently evil and the state needed fuck shit up. He then later grew some balls. I think Locke might have been an S. S's can quite naturally be into politics, and its only natural that with the hobbesian views of that era he would need to "dabble" in other philosophy. I think Lock was possibly an ESTJ
 

Blackwater

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May 29, 2007
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454
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ERTP
Bluewing:

Camus: Thinking it over again I don't know. I simply don't know. The Sisyphus-myth reads like an INFP trying to be philosophic IMO but his novels read like bad INFJ. Eigther way, he has fallen a lot in my esteem lately.

Babylon Candle:

Newton: I waive the typing. See above.

Jefferson: A will-less, timid analytic temper. INTJ?

Kant: "Man is not so completely an animal as to be indifferent as to everything that reasons says on its on and to use it merely as a tool to satisfy his needs." - This the words of a Te-user?

And don't use Nietzsches critique of Kant for anything except to read Nietzsche himself.

Dawkins: I would agree to an outside chance of ENTJ. But I still lean towards a melancholy ENTP. ENTPs can be over-formal at times you know. But the true give-away is the manner in which he pieces together arguments from a virtual torrent of abstract knowledge and then stands back, confident that the impression itself will do the work of convincing.

Locke: Possibly an S, yes. I can agree to hold that plausible. Though he seems essentially introverted to me, still. Ironically enough, an Extrovert might be more objective about his subject matter than the case was. What I am saying is that Locke sometimes looses himself in subjective arguments relevant only to himself. This suggests I to me, and if S, ISTJ.
 

onemoretime

Dreaming the life
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Jun 29, 2009
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4,455
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3h50
I would type Rousseau as INFP. I've read many of his works, and several biographies of the man, and Im currently working on the latest one Jean-Jacques Rousseau: Restless Genius by Leo Damrosch - which goes into considerable detail about his personality.

I guess the Social Contract is FiNe trying to understand how this imperceptible Fe business actually works.
 

Venom

Babylon Candle
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Kant: "Man is not so completely an animal as to be indifferent as to everything that reasons says on its own and to use it merely as a tool to satisfy his needs." - This the words of a Te-user?

Kant was so idealistic (Fi) that he would say something like that, and then turn around and say something like this: “I had to deny knowledge in order to make room for faith.”

Kant's treatment of the concept of God and religion in his critical philosophy, however, does not consist merely in this negative result that we must block reason from taking us along the theoretical paths that rationalist metaphysics had claimed will lead to a proof of God's existence. He argues that once we have disciplined human reason to stay off that theoretical path, we are then in a position to make an affirmation of God on the basis of what he terms the practical, i.e., moral, use of reason. As he writes in the Preface to the second edition of the Critique of Pure Reason (1787), “I had to deny knowledge in order to make room for faith.” He thus proposes what has come to be known as his “moral argument” for God and the immortality of the soul. In connection with this argument he also develops the concept of “moral faith.” Key elements of Kant's moral argument are first presented in the “Transcendental Doctrine of Method,” which is the final part of the Critique of Pure Reason, and are then further developed in “The Dialectic of Pure Practical Reason” of the Critique of Practical Reason (1788) and in §§ 86–91 of the Critique of the Power of Judgment (1790). Elements of the notion of moral faith are found in the same texts, as well as in Religion within the Bounds of Mere Reason (1793).

Te and Fi.
 

Blackwater

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Wittgenstein is INFJ. Confused, abstract, guided by whims to a degree that INTJs are not

----

Kant was so idealistic (Fi) that he would say something like that, and then turn around and say something like this: “I had to deny knowledge in order to make room for faith.”

which begs the question: would an INTJ ever say something like that? (that is; knowingly concede that his position wasn't optimal?)

an INTJ rationalizes his position to be the best because the INTJ lives his position through ego-driven feeling (Fi)

so Kants statement indicates an interchange with faith (Fe). he can slip in and out of his dealings with faith in the same manner than an extroverted function can be stimulated of dormant, whereas an introverted function is always on. if kant was Fi-driven he could not make room for faith, because he would simply live his faith, allowing no distance from or to it

-------------

if we compare the two statements:

“I had to deny knowledge in order to make room for faith.”

and:

"once we have disciplined human reason to stay off that theoretical path, we are then in a position to make an affirmation of God on the basis of what he terms the practical, i.e., moral, use of reason"

these do not mean the same.

the key to understanding this is asking ourselves what "that path" is. then we will have the meaning of the second statement:

"once we have disciplined human reason to stay off [theoretical paths that rationalist metaphysics had claimed will lead to a proof of God's existence], we are then in a position to make an affirmation of God on the basis of what he terms the practical, i.e., moral, use of reason"

now in everyday view, there's nothing "practical" about kant's "practical reason. practical reason is simply reason that interacts with the wold in any way. in kantian terminology, it practical reason does not have any of the properties that we would consider "applied reason" and as such, Te

the reason that pure reason should not venture into the questions of faith is not because there is an idealistic darling to be protected (Fi), in fact, if anything, *if* kant had applied pure reason to the questions of faith he would have concluded that god *did* exist on these grounds. the reason that pure reason should not adress the questions of faith is because pure reason cannot prove claims about god without interacting with the world, thus becomming practical reason. kant knew this from hume, and had he not read hume he would - by his own account - have remained in the "metaphysical slumber" of pure reason

-------

i used to think that marx was an INTJ, but in fact we was a very analytic, disinterested type, concerned more with analysing scholary data than actual revolution. - still, he might be an INTJ though my money is on P
 

Z Buck McFate

Pepperidge Farm remembers.
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Marcus Aurelius: If he was an N he was not a very visionary one. Remember, rather than he had access to the best philosophical schooling of his day, all the way from childbirth. - And would a person who naturally looking along the big lines of things really need to constantly remind himself to look at the big picture?

Still, he might be INFJ, though well-read, well-bread ISFJ is more likely.

I finally found my copy of “Meditations”. Isn’t it possible the S you are catching a whiff of is the result of his Stoic discipline? I don’t get the impression (from his journal) that he struggled to find the ‘big picture’ so much as he struggled to find an emotional stasis; and it seems to me he used the ‘big picture’ (his Ni) to stifle his own abstract inclinations for the sake of being Stoic.

Book 3 #1 (on aging): "When a loaf of bread, for instance, is in the oven, cracks appear in it here and there; and these flaws, though not intended in the baking, have a rightous flavor of their own, and sharpen the appetite."

Book 4 #15 (the pointlessness of vanity & of fear of death): “Many grains of incense fall on the same altar: one sooner, another later- it makes no difference.”

There are several metaphors like this throughout his journal; he habitually recognized profound symbolic meaning in everyday occurrences.

Book 4 # 11: “Do not copy the opinions of the arrogant, or let them dictate your own, but look at things in their true light.”

Book 4 # 46: “Again, ‘we are not to act or speak like men asleep’ (for indeed men in their sleep do fancy themselves to be acting and speaking), not ‘like children at their parents’ word’; that is, in blind reliance on traditional maxims.”

Book 6 #3: "Look beneath the surface: never let a thing's intrinsic quality or worth escape you."

This is pretty much the theme of Aurelius’s journal; he worked at shaving off all traditional influence from his thinking in order to reveal the barest truths possible. I’m not saying ISFJs can’t have goals or obsessions like this, but they are less likely to than an INFJ.

Edit: I just noticed you changed Aurelius to IxFJ when you updated the OP, but I'll leave this post here anyway.
 
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Heart&Brain

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Kant seems INTJ to me. Nothing much P about his famous strict time-schedule and his relentless dedication to finish his huge undertaking of the three Critiques. Living alone, no care for romance. But a loyal friend and very entertaining host for those he trusted. Yes, Kant was known to have a great sense of humour in the right company!

In his earlier days he made a system about the distribution and dynamics of traits of national character within Europe (hilarious sometimes but his few remarks on Africans is quite racist unfortunately). His system didn't need any outside-world experience with foreign countries, (contrary to for instance Leibniz, he never travelled outside his hometown), which suggest a strong Ni.

There's definitely a strong ethical motivation running through his critical philosophy, which I guess is Fi getting more integrated in the Ni-Te projects as he gets older. The essay on Enlightenment is remarkably Fi too, not Fe, not Ti = not INTP. It's all about core values, conscience, responsibility, and the protection of free thought from any outside norms, pressure and power, as the road to morally mature citizenship. Fi.

As for inferior Se... I dunno. He was into good food & wine (at set times of course - no impulsivity, no surprises, no uncontrolled indulgence) and needed his brisk walks (ditto).
Eh, maybe his housekeeper was hot?
 

Orangey

Blah
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Since my thread failed, anyone want to do Galen? The famous doctor-philosopher? He was actually Marcus Aurelius' doctor at some point. And while many of his works are medical in nature, his corpus is suffused with his natural philosophy. Lots of stuff about method to be found.
 

bighairything

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Hitchens is definitely definitely definitely an ENTP. Practically a prototype.
 
S

Sniffles

Guest
Why is Aquinas INFJ? Just curious. Would explain alot of why I like him so much. ;)

I don't know if anybody did him yet, but Henri Bergson is probably INJ -INFJ if I had to guess.
 

the state i am in

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Why is Aquinas INFJ? Just curious. Would explain alot of why I like him so much. ;)

I don't know if anybody did him yet, but Henri Bergson is probably INJ -INFJ if I had to guess.

bergson as infj? he seems really fucking interesting, very influential for deleuze. the writer henry miller talked about bergson's creative evolution in tropic of capricorn or tropic of cancer.



also, what do you think about hegel? infj, intj, intp? i'm starting to lean toward inj for him as well.
 
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