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  1. #31
    Senior Member Blackwater's Avatar
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    Wittgenstein is INFJ. Confused, abstract, guided by whims to a degree that INTJs are not

    ----

    Kant was so idealistic (Fi) that he would say something like that, and then turn around and say something like this: “I had to deny knowledge in order to make room for faith.”
    which begs the question: would an INTJ ever say something like that? (that is; knowingly concede that his position wasn't optimal?)

    an INTJ rationalizes his position to be the best because the INTJ lives his position through ego-driven feeling (Fi)

    so Kants statement indicates an interchange with faith (Fe). he can slip in and out of his dealings with faith in the same manner than an extroverted function can be stimulated of dormant, whereas an introverted function is always on. if kant was Fi-driven he could not make room for faith, because he would simply live his faith, allowing no distance from or to it

    -------------

    if we compare the two statements:

    “I had to deny knowledge in order to make room for faith.”

    and:

    "once we have disciplined human reason to stay off that theoretical path, we are then in a position to make an affirmation of God on the basis of what he terms the practical, i.e., moral, use of reason"

    these do not mean the same.

    the key to understanding this is asking ourselves what "that path" is. then we will have the meaning of the second statement:

    "once we have disciplined human reason to stay off [theoretical paths that rationalist metaphysics had claimed will lead to a proof of God's existence], we are then in a position to make an affirmation of God on the basis of what he terms the practical, i.e., moral, use of reason"

    now in everyday view, there's nothing "practical" about kant's "practical reason. practical reason is simply reason that interacts with the wold in any way. in kantian terminology, it practical reason does not have any of the properties that we would consider "applied reason" and as such, Te

    the reason that pure reason should not venture into the questions of faith is not because there is an idealistic darling to be protected (Fi), in fact, if anything, *if* kant had applied pure reason to the questions of faith he would have concluded that god *did* exist on these grounds. the reason that pure reason should not adress the questions of faith is because pure reason cannot prove claims about god without interacting with the world, thus becomming practical reason. kant knew this from hume, and had he not read hume he would - by his own account - have remained in the "metaphysical slumber" of pure reason

    -------

    i used to think that marx was an INTJ, but in fact we was a very analytic, disinterested type, concerned more with analysing scholary data than actual revolution. - still, he might be an INTJ though my money is on P
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  2. #32
    Senior Member Blackwater's Avatar
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    updated the OP

    any guesses about bordieus type?
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  3. #33
    can't handcuff the wind Z Buck McFate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackwater View Post
    Marcus Aurelius: If he was an N he was not a very visionary one. Remember, rather than he had access to the best philosophical schooling of his day, all the way from childbirth. - And would a person who naturally looking along the big lines of things really need to constantly remind himself to look at the big picture?

    Still, he might be INFJ, though well-read, well-bread ISFJ is more likely.
    I finally found my copy of “Meditations”. Isn’t it possible the S you are catching a whiff of is the result of his Stoic discipline? I don’t get the impression (from his journal) that he struggled to find the ‘big picture’ so much as he struggled to find an emotional stasis; and it seems to me he used the ‘big picture’ (his Ni) to stifle his own abstract inclinations for the sake of being Stoic.

    Book 3 #1 (on aging): "When a loaf of bread, for instance, is in the oven, cracks appear in it here and there; and these flaws, though not intended in the baking, have a rightous flavor of their own, and sharpen the appetite."

    Book 4 #15 (the pointlessness of vanity & of fear of death): “Many grains of incense fall on the same altar: one sooner, another later- it makes no difference.”
    There are several metaphors like this throughout his journal; he habitually recognized profound symbolic meaning in everyday occurrences.

    Book 4 # 11: “Do not copy the opinions of the arrogant, or let them dictate your own, but look at things in their true light.”

    Book 4 # 46: “Again, ‘we are not to act or speak like men asleep’ (for indeed men in their sleep do fancy themselves to be acting and speaking), not ‘like children at their parents’ word’; that is, in blind reliance on traditional maxims.”

    Book 6 #3: "Look beneath the surface: never let a thing's intrinsic quality or worth escape you."
    This is pretty much the theme of Aurelius’s journal; he worked at shaving off all traditional influence from his thinking in order to reveal the barest truths possible. I’m not saying ISFJs can’t have goals or obsessions like this, but they are less likely to than an INFJ.

    Edit: I just noticed you changed Aurelius to IxFJ when you updated the OP, but I'll leave this post here anyway.
    Last edited by Z Buck McFate; 10-01-2009 at 09:59 PM.
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  4. #34
    Senior Member avolkiteshvara's Avatar
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    I thought this was going to be about Iraq.

  5. #35
    Senior Member Heart&Brain's Avatar
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    Kant seems INTJ to me. Nothing much P about his famous strict time-schedule and his relentless dedication to finish his huge undertaking of the three Critiques. Living alone, no care for romance. But a loyal friend and very entertaining host for those he trusted. Yes, Kant was known to have a great sense of humour in the right company!

    In his earlier days he made a system about the distribution and dynamics of traits of national character within Europe (hilarious sometimes but his few remarks on Africans is quite racist unfortunately). His system didn't need any outside-world experience with foreign countries, (contrary to for instance Leibniz, he never travelled outside his hometown), which suggest a strong Ni.

    There's definitely a strong ethical motivation running through his critical philosophy, which I guess is Fi getting more integrated in the Ni-Te projects as he gets older. The essay on Enlightenment is remarkably Fi too, not Fe, not Ti = not INTP. It's all about core values, conscience, responsibility, and the protection of free thought from any outside norms, pressure and power, as the road to morally mature citizenship. Fi.

    As for inferior Se... I dunno. He was into good food & wine (at set times of course - no impulsivity, no surprises, no uncontrolled indulgence) and needed his brisk walks (ditto).
    Eh, maybe his housekeeper was hot?

  6. #36
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Since my thread failed, anyone want to do Galen? The famous doctor-philosopher? He was actually Marcus Aurelius' doctor at some point. And while many of his works are medical in nature, his corpus is suffused with his natural philosophy. Lots of stuff about method to be found.
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

  7. #37
    Senior Member Blackwater's Avatar
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    Galen ENTJ
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  8. #38
    Senior Member bighairything's Avatar
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    Hitchens is definitely definitely definitely an ENTP. Practically a prototype.

  9. #39
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    Why is Aquinas INFJ? Just curious. Would explain alot of why I like him so much.

    I don't know if anybody did him yet, but Henri Bergson is probably INJ -INFJ if I had to guess.

  10. #40
    Senior Member the state i am in's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    Why is Aquinas INFJ? Just curious. Would explain alot of why I like him so much.

    I don't know if anybody did him yet, but Henri Bergson is probably INJ -INFJ if I had to guess.
    bergson as infj? he seems really fucking interesting, very influential for deleuze. the writer henry miller talked about bergson's creative evolution in tropic of capricorn or tropic of cancer.



    also, what do you think about hegel? infj, intj, intp? i'm starting to lean toward inj for him as well.

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