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Thread: Shirley Manson

  1. #11
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    No way she is ISTJ . I'd need to hear an extremely well thought out argument for that. She enjoys freaking people out way too much; she used to enjoy telling a story of how she pooped in her boyfriend's cornflakes cuz she was pissed off at him.

    I'm a huge fan of her, & have read nearly every interview with her, all of her old blog/online diaries, & know tons about her. She's an ENFx, and I'm leaning towards ENFP.

    I also think her bandmate Duke is an IxTJ, and they have the ENFP-IxTJ chemistry happening. They used to be the closest in the band, but then had a falling out.

    How is this not a feeler?

    Someone once told me, "Shirley your feelings are highjacking your brain. It's holding a gun against your head and you are paralyzed by your feelings. Nobody cares about your feelings. Your feelings don't mean shit." And it took a mile for that penny to drop. And she's right. She said, "You keep running up against the wall, banging your head against the wall, turning around and you're all bloody and you're wondering why nothing has changed. You need to change your mind and you need to walk behind the wall. Just change your mind, walk around the wall. The wall won't change. You change."

    If your feelings are leading you to a good place that's one thing, but if your feelings are leading you to complete inertia or depression or whatever it is then something has to change and you can change it. That's easier said than done.

    CBV: How long were you a cutter and how did you get past it?

    SM: About two years. That was part of my teenage development. And, then I joined a band and found a way of articulating what was going on inside and found an outlet to let it out. As an adult I realized I was a very hypersensitive child and I'm still hypersensitive. And, I grew up in a family where that was seen as a negative and I've come to realize it was a great gift.

    Ne anyone?

    Last night I woke up in the middle of the night and I thought to myself " I need to find a way to make my life exciting again" and I really meant it but when I woke up this morning I wasn't quite so sure I was certain of my own meaning and how I was going to attend to it.How do you make your life exciting? And what exactly IS exciting anyway?!?!?!
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

  2. #12
    Obsession. Lethe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    No way she is ISTJ . I'd need to hear an extremely well thought out argument for that. She enjoys freaking people out way too much; she used to enjoy telling a story of how she pooped in her boyfriend's cornflakes cuz she was pissed off at him.
    Though I would gladly invite Shirley into the ITJ club, I could already feel something devouring my insides, if I, or any ISTJ/INTJ, ever shared that much personal information with the public. She shows everyone her deepest self, and is perhaps energized by that decision. An IXXJ, particularly ITJ, would usually reveal enough to get things done, and even this is executed with some hesitancy.

    IXTJs could feel as strongly as Shirley, but I doubt they would (normally) act on these impulses... or readily admit them. We're not exactly the wear-our-feelings-on-our-sleeves bunch, especially not without thorough consideration.
    "I cannot expect even my own art to provide all of the answers -- only to hope it keeps asking the right questions." -- Grace Hartigan

    Enneagram: Tritype - 1w9, 5 (balanced wings), 2w3; Overall Variant: So/Sx
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    Functional Preferences: Ni, Te/Fi, Ti, Se, Fe, Si, Ne


    Quote Originally Posted by OneWithSoul View Post
    Looking into the eyes of a [Ni user] is like peeking through a portal into a parallel universe.

  3. #13
    jump sleuthiness's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lethe View Post
    I think Natalie Portman is a better representative of an ISTJ: calmer, private, equally stubborn, considerably less energetic and certain about showing her personal values, less spontaneous, more diligent/controlled in responding (example: no surprise temper explosions), etc.
    Watch/listen Portman talk to Letterman. The conversation moves too smoothly for her not to be isfj. You always know Dave's feeling comfortable if he's tripping over his words the entire interview.

    thinking of you

  4. #14
    Obsession. Lethe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by candylandjoe View Post
    Watch/listen Portman talk to Letterman. The conversation moves too smoothly for her not to be isfj. You always know Dave's feeling comfortable if he's tripping over his words the entire interview.
    I would argue the Fe is actually due to Si dom: community-oriented, external awareness, proper attitude, etc.

    Here's an excerpt of the ISTJ description via Berens:

    Quote Originally Posted by ISTJ
    A sense of right and wrong is extremely important, and I will not just stand by and watch people doing things wrong. It really tears me apart. I tend to want things in order and people doing the right things. I want to have some rules. I always wanted to please people, and a safe environment to me is where I donít have to compete with anyone elseís wishes. If I get into a situation where I feel very strongly and canít articulate the words or canít win, I just donít say anything. I tend to put up with conflict rather than deal with it. I try to deal with stress, but I am not necessarily a good confronter. I would like to be more of a stress avoider.

    ISTJ Profile
    Compared to ISFJ:
    Quote Originally Posted by ISFJ
    I dislike conflict. I really care about treating people with a lot of respect. Itís an emotional drain when I have to deal with different opinions and reconcile everyone. I give an opinion based on what I think is fair and whatís been done in the past. Whatís decided for one person shouldnít be really any different than for another. I respect that people are certainly entitled to feel the way they feel, but in working or living together, decisions have to be made and things have to go a certain way. I need positive feedback that Iím doing a good job and that my opinions are similar to the opinions of others, to hear, ďYes, I think that same thing.Ē I worry when thereís disagreement. I question myself. Iíve learned to challenge what I donít feel is right, especially if someone does something to me that I donít feel I would have done to that person.

    ISFJ Profile
    ^ See how Natalie's Fi pales to an ISFJ's active role in harmonizing interactions. Any smooth interaction from Natalie would be attributed to her natural self-preservation tendency.

    (Further responses should be carried into the NP thread: http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...an-s-type.html )
    "I cannot expect even my own art to provide all of the answers -- only to hope it keeps asking the right questions." -- Grace Hartigan

    Enneagram: Tritype - 1w9, 5 (balanced wings), 2w3; Overall Variant: So/Sx
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    Quote Originally Posted by OneWithSoul View Post
    Looking into the eyes of a [Ni user] is like peeking through a portal into a parallel universe.

  5. #15
    Senior Member the state i am in's Avatar
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    she seems esfp to me. her lyrics show no Ne to me whatsoever (tho i only looked at 7 or 8 songs). she behaves more like an esfp, very aware of her environment, very in her body. she isn't wacky enough to be an enfp, particularly funny in any of the intervierws i watched, or super creative. she seems like her look and attitude are most of what she offers. an it's ok to be "dark" kind of thing, without really showing serious understanding of anything. her perceptions are not compelling to me, but i could be totally missing the boat, and i often judge people more so as writers than as overall people when i haven't done the research.

  6. #16
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the state i am in View Post
    she seems esfp to me. her lyrics show no Ne to me whatsoever (tho i only looked at 7 or 8 songs). she behaves more like an esfp, very aware of her environment, very in her body. she isn't wacky enough to be an enfp, particularly funny in any of the intervierws i watched, or super creative. she seems like her look and attitude are most of what she offers. an it's ok to be "dark" kind of thing, without really showing serious understanding of anything. her perceptions are not compelling to me, but i could be totally missing the boat, and i often judge people more so as writers than as overall people when i haven't done the research.
    I find her funny, on stage & in interviews. ESFPs are often funny also, so I don't see how that's a distinction. Although, having been close to many ESFPs and ENFPs, I see her humor closer to the latter. She has that wicked sort of teasing that ENFPs tend to have.

    When you hear her talk about her idols like Siouxie Sioux and Patti Smith, you see her image isn't all about look. She talks about clothes being an extension of her inner self & stuff like that.

    Her taste in literature doesn't say sensor to me either. She was reading a musical theory book once, and discussing it in her diary. I just don't see th average ESFP being into that.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

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