Mike Patton ISTP?

[simulatedworld]

Anybody have any ideas on this legend of the microphone?

 

[jixmixfix]

Anybody have any ideas on this legend of the microphone?

he's a weirdo...he pulled out his cock when i saw tool back in 2002. lol
seems like an ISFP.

 

[simulatedworld]

Nah he's quite a T. Pull up some interviews, and read some song lyrics. The crazy Ti scatter-brained impersonal analysis is all over it; I'm pretty certain he's xxTP.

But I also get a very detail-oriented, gear-nut feel from him...he's insane and over the top on stage (Se), but also seems very quietly confidently organized and detached in his personal style.

Seems like classic ISTP to me...where do you get F?

 

[SolitaryPenguin]

"His lyrics mock the self-important coolness of the music industry and self parody his own place in it. His contempt for the over-the-top antics of figures in popular music is often cited as the main reason that Patton has always been so guarded about his privacy and personal life."

Source

I've always seen him as INTP.

He's always seemed to keep enough distance, while still being involved enough to be influential (something I truly admire)

 

[simulatedworld]

^ Interesting point. I could definitely see INTP more easily than ISFP...but I still think ISTP is quite possible. He does mock his own coolness and he is self-aware, but the fact that he has that "cool" swagger and crazy impulsive behavior is indicative, I think, of a smart and self-aware ISTP, not necessarily an INTP. When I think INTP rock frontmen I think more like Maynard James Keenan, who cultivates an actively bizarre visual image and also appears rather shy and disconnected on stage. Patton is far more naturally "cool" and in command of his surroundings, it seems.

When Patton is performing, he is right there in the moment and he does whatever the fuck he feels like at the time. When he does things like drink bottles of urine on stage or do backflips or encourage fans to spit in his mouth, etc., he seems to be indulging an Se junkie's love of adrenaline/creating a spectacle of himself for immediate visual impact. There's not often any particular underlying point in this behavior beyond just making that immediate impact, and I think that's very SP.

On the other hand, when Ne makes a spectacle it's usually for some particular idealistic point--MJK will dress like a woman on stage and such, but it's because he's making a social statement against intolerance by throwing uncomfortable images in people's faces to make a point. Patton is just going nuts because it feels like the thing to do at the time--that strikes me as very Se.

You do make an interesting case for INTP, though.

 

[jixmixfix]

^ Interesting point. I could definitely see INTP more easily than ISFP...but I still think ISTP is quite possible. He does mock his own coolness and he is self-aware, but the fact that he has that "cool" swagger and crazy impulsive behavior is indicative, I think, of a smart and self-aware ISTP, not necessarily an INTP. When I think INTP rock frontmen I think more like Maynard James Keenan, who cultivates an actively bizarre visual image and also appears rather shy and disconnected on stage. Patton is far more naturally "cool" and in command of his surroundings, it seems.

When Patton is performing, he is right there in the moment and he does whatever the fuck he feels like at the time. When he does things like drink bottles of urine on stage or do backflips or encourage fans to spit in his mouth, etc., he seems to be indulging an Se junkie's love of adrenaline/creating a spectacle of himself for immediate visual impact. There's not often any particular underlying point in this behavior beyond just making that immediate impact, and I think that's very SP.

On the other hand, when Ne makes a spectacle it's usually for some particular idealistic point--MJK will dress like a woman on stage and such, but it's because he's making a social statement against intolerance by throwing uncomfortable images in people's faces to make a point. Patton is just going nuts because it feels like the thing to do at the time--that strikes me as very Se.

You do make an interesting case for INTP, though.

his outrageous and speratic uncontrolled music and temper is "F" not "T". Also his knack for wanting attention, is not ISTP-like.

 

[simulatedworld]

his outrageous and speratic uncontrolled music and temper is "F" not "T". Also his knack for wanting attention, is not ISTP-like.

Uhhh wrong. Outrageous, spastic, uncontrolled temper, wanting attention all = classic behavior for the entire SP temperament. This has nothing to do with T/F at all; the traits you've listed are merely characteristics of Se.

 

[Thalassa]

Uhhh wrong. Outrageous, spastic, uncontrolled temper, wanting attention all = classic behavior for the entire SP temperament. This has nothing to do with T/F at all; the traits you've listed are merely characteristics of Se.

But ISTPs are more logical and controlled. I think there's a possibility that he's an ISFP too.

Anyway, I say ISxP. There's no way in hell he's an INTP. I don't even know where that came from. That's almost as ridiculous as the person who insisted that Eminem is an INTx.

 

[jixmixfix]

Uhhh wrong. Outrageous, spastic, uncontrolled temper, wanting attention all = classic behavior for the entire SP temperament. This has nothing to do with T/F at all; the traits you've listed are merely characteristics of Se.

I don't follow MBTI functions, I find socionics more accurate, he seems way too uncontrolled and speratic to be a "T". "T" traits are more controlled and structured and if he is an "S" his music would be a representation of himself. His music is very speratic and uncontrolled temper is more "F" then "T" and not just a temperament that has to do with "SP".

 

[simulatedworld]

I don't follow MBTI functions, I find socionics more accurate, he seems way too uncontrolled and speratic to be a "T". "T" traits are more controlled and structured and if he is an "S" his music would be a representation of himself. His music is very speratic and uncontrolled temper is more "F" then "T" and not just a temperament that has to do with "SP".

Socionics doesn't say anything about Ts always being controlled. ESTPs are total loose cannons; are you joking?

ISTPs are sporadic and uncontrolled during the times when they're interacting with the external world, because they use S for that. The more rigid T takes control during their introverted moments (which, because they are Is, are more numerous than their extroverted moments.)

His music IS a reflection of himself. Do you listen to his work at all?

But ISTPs are more logical and controlled. I think there's a possibility that he's an ISFP too.

Only when in dominant Ti mode. If they have well-developed secondary Se they can go into crazy external exploration mode pretty easily--hence their reputation for being into extreme sports and other such intense physical experiences. When using secondary Se, they look very, very similar to ESTPs.

Anyway, I say ISxP. There's no way in hell he's an INTP. I don't even know where that came from. That's almost as ridiculous as the person who insisted that Eminem is an INTx.

Do you place Eminem as an ISTP?

 

[Thalassa]

Socionics doesn't say anything about Ts always being controlled. ESTPs are total loose cannons; are you joking?

ISTPs are sporadic and uncontrolled during the times when they're interacting with the external world, because they use S for that. The more rigid T takes control during their introverted moments (which, because they are Is, are more numerous than their extroverted moments.)

His music IS a reflection of himself. Do you listen to his work at all?




Only when in dominant Ti mode. If they have well-developed secondary Se they can go into crazy external exploration mode pretty easily--hence their reputation for being into extreme sports and other such intense physical experiences. When using secondary Se, they look very, very similar to ESTPs.



Do you place Eminem as an ISTP?

ISTP or ISFP

 

[SolitaryPenguin]

Patton is no S. I wish he was, but no.

 

[simulatedworld]

^ Umm...any actual support for that?

 

[SolitaryPenguin]

Mainly just a vibe I've gotten from him in interviews I've seen/heard with him. He really seems to dislike the music industry as a whole, with a very intellectual disdain. This is all just my opinion of course, but I haven't seen too many S's really give a crap about what other people (people in the industry we are working in) are or aren't doing. Again, I could be wrong, but he just seems more vocal about his dislikes.

 

[Moiety]

I do think he's an N too. His music alone heavily implies it I'd say.

 

[jixmixfix]

Socionics doesn't say anything about Ts always being controlled. ESTPs are total loose cannons; are you joking?

ISTPs are sporadic and uncontrolled during the times when they're interacting with the external world, because they use S for that. The more rigid T takes control during their introverted moments (which, because they are Is, are more numerous than their extroverted moments.)

His music IS a reflection of himself. Do you listen to his work at all?

Ok Sherlock, I never implied how I thought socionics said anything that T's are more controlled, I was referring to how I don't follow MBTI functions because I think they are wrong. Secondly I also never implied that I thought his music was not a reflection of himself I said that if he is an "F" then to me the sporadic and uncontrollable nature of his music would represent himself as being an "F", he even said in one of his interviews that he just loves going out there and yelling at top of his lungs.Now in socionics an ISTPS primary function is "Si" and creative function is"Te" but an ISFPs primary is "Si" and creative function "Fe", now if he was an ISFP I could make the argument that his uncontrollable and sporadic music is his ability to change peoples feelings and emotions "Fe". Which is why I think he is ISFP. Sherlock if you read descriptions of ISTPs, especially during times of "interacting with the external" you would notice how the "T" does actually come into place, and not just during during introverted moments. For example ISTPS are known to be more in control with their feelings and emotions during times of crisis and pressure. While ISFPs tend to blow up, over perform or underpreform due to the exemption of their behavior.ESTPS are known to burn their energy or hype themselves up before hand due to anticipation of an event or stressful situation There are articles that claim how ISTPs are ideal at sports because of this. So no not all "SPs" are similar in their behavior. Now I could care less of whether he actually is a "T" or "F" or an "E" i think you have weak points in your argument.

 

[simulatedworld]

^ Ok no, that's also completely wrong.

Check up on your theory, Holmes.

Mainly just a vibe I've gotten from him in interviews I've seen/heard with him. He really seems to dislike the music industry as a whole, with a very intellectual disdain. This is all just my opinion of course, but I haven't seen too many S's really give a crap about what other people (people in the industry we are working in) are or aren't doing. Again, I could be wrong, but he just seems more vocal about his dislikes.

Why is it that you people all think Sensors can't be smart, intellectual or self-aware?

That's ridiculous. "Omg he makes complex music must be an N!!" is retarded.

 

[jixmixfix]

^ Ok no, that's also completely wrong.

Check up on your theory, Holmes.

You're just basing your opinion on theory which doesn't hold 100% true meaning anyways since typing is fundamentally based on subjective opinion. Why else do you think there is a conflict of opinion between MBTI and socionics.

 

[Thalassa]

Mainly just a vibe I've gotten from him in interviews I've seen/heard with him. He really seems to dislike the music industry as a whole, with a very intellectual disdain. This is all just my opinion of course, <b> but I haven't seen too many S's really give a crap about what other people (people in the industry we are working in) are or aren't doing. </b> Again, I could be wrong, but he just seems more vocal about his dislikes.

I'm going to strongly disagree with this. Ernest Hemingway and F. Scott Fitzgerald were both SP (ESTP and ISxP, respectively) writers, and they were both very snobbish and critical about other people's writing, including each others. They both definitely had intellectual disdain for what they didn't consider "real art."

My ex is an ISFP and he's a total film snob, and looks down on people who like mainstream Hollywood movies.

Ss can be intellectual snobs, they're just usually different with their focus on what, how, and why they criticize than Ns.

I also strongly suspect that Eminem is an S, and he makes a living on criticizing the society around around him.

 

[Quinlan]

In terms of behaviour, roughly: Ti = controlled, Se = uncontrolled.