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Thread: The Beatles?

  1. #31
    Senior Member BlahBlahNounBlah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Liquid_Laser View Post
    Also he would do stuff like "love ins" and just go around promoting the word "peace" without much of a well thought out and developed message.

    At the risk of bad-mouthing my own kind, ENTPs aren't exactly known for exploring issues with depth and precision.


    Our talent lies in innovation and breadth, however, so I'm not criticizing that quality.

  2. #32
    Senior Member the state i am in's Avatar
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    i find the argument for nf unconvincing, but i don't like keirsey's temperaments anyway. nts are concerned with social progress too, especially if they team up with an enfj yoko. he's still talking about peace more than individual self-actualization regardless.

    if nfs do anything, it's seeing ways in which individuals can better meet their own individually needs collectively. it's using feeling to relate to people's PERSONAL VALUES and slowly show them new possibilities, whereas lennon and nts just say, stop being so fucking stupid and be more logical with your personal values so they don't ruin the lives of others.

  3. #33
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarcasticus View Post
    Well you're entitled to your opinion as am I. But the preponderance of writers being NFs suggests otherwise.
    Why should F lend itself to creative invention any more than T?

    You've made a mistake by assuming that "more NFs are writers than NTs" proves that NFs are better at it. Why couldn't it just be that NTs see less reason to pursue writing as a serious career or avocation? It doesn't really say anything about who's naturally better at it, just about who's more inclined to attempt it. Big difference.
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  4. #34
    Senior Member BlahBlahNounBlah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the state i am in View Post
    whereas lennon and nts just say, stop being so fucking stupid and be more logical with your personal values so they don't ruin the lives of others.

    I really appreciate you saying this, because it's something I believe in very strongly, and sometimes it seems like people overlook this. Thank you for recognizing it.

  5. #35
    Glowy Goopy Goodness The_Liquid_Laser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlahBlahNounBlah View Post
    At the risk of bad-mouthing my own kind, ENTPs aren't exactly known for exploring issues with depth and precision.


    Our talent lies in innovation and breadth, however, so I'm not criticizing that quality.
    This depends on the ENTP. An undeveloped ENTP won't have much depth and precision in thinking. They also won't be terribly effective either when it comes to innovation. They will be more like the Cosmo Kramer type of ENTP.

    On the other hand John was a musical genius. (So were George and Paul for that matter.) A person can't be that effective without a well developed auxiliary function. Music relies much more on F than T for inspiration and John's lyrics show that. His Feeling was well developed, but his Thinking was not. This is because he was an ENFP.
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  6. #36
    Circus Maximus Sarcasticus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    Why should F lend itself to creative invention any more than T?

    You've made a mistake by assuming that "more NFs are writers than NTs" proves that NFs are better at it. Why couldn't it just be that NTs see less reason to pursue writing as a serious career or avocation? It doesn't really say anything about who's naturally better at it, just about who's more inclined to attempt it. Big difference.
    We're talking about someone who's actually a writer (he wrote two books not to mention a couple hundred songs) not just thinks about it in the abstract. You've made the mistake of assuming aptitude = application. I said in my original statement that word-play and lyric ability are usually the domain of NFs. Not exclusively.

  7. #37
    Circus Maximus Sarcasticus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Liquid_Laser View Post
    This depends on the ENTP. An undeveloped ENTP won't have much depth and precision in thinking. They also won't be terribly effective either when it comes to innovation. They will be more like the Cosmo Kramer type of ENTP.

    On the other hand John was a musical genius. (So were George and Paul for that matter.) A person can't be that effective without a well developed auxiliary function. Music relies much more on F than T for inspiration and John's lyrics show that. His Feeling was well developed, but his Thinking was not. This is because he was an ENFP.
    I think one reason we're going back and forth between ENTP and ENFP is because of his obviously well-developed primary Ne which comes through in his wit. Seems pretty clear he has to be one of those types. Though he's famously introverted and reclusive outside of the spotlight, so I was leaning more towards a 50/50 split.

    He's admitted in interviews that his brash and confrontational exterior was a cover because inside he was sensitive and easily wounded. Seems like the kind of compensatory machismo that NF males are said to exhibit.

  8. #38
    Senior Member INTJMom's Avatar
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    Jeffster says that Paul McCartney is an ISFP.
    I can see that.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTJMom View Post
    Jeffster says that Paul McCartney is an ISFP.
    I can see that.
    Paul's way too much of a Mr. Showbiz ham to be an introvert. He was the one always cheerleading the others to go on tour. Enneagram type 3 too (like Sting).

  10. #40
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTJMom View Post
    Jeffster says that Paul McCartney is an ISFP.
    I can see that.
    I wonder if Jeffster has seen Paul McCartney on stage, because I think if he had he'd change his mind to ESFP.


    Quote Originally Posted by Sarcasticus View Post
    I think one reason we're going back and forth between ENTP and ENFP is because of his obviously well-developed primary Ne which comes through in his wit. Seems pretty clear he has to be one of those types. Though he's famously introverted and reclusive outside of the spotlight, so I was leaning more towards a 50/50 split.

    He's admitted in interviews that his brash and confrontational exterior was a cover because inside he was sensitive and easily wounded. Seems like the kind of compensatory machismo that NF males are said to exhibit.
    That's also true of numerous NTPs.

    Also Ne doms are known for being the most socially withdrawn of E types, because Ne involves the external world but isn't necessarily interested in the people in it.

    I just really don't see "He wrote lots of stuff" as any kind of argument for F or T; it's just irrelevant.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

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