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Thread: The Beatles?

  1. #11
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by polikujm View Post
    I type John Lennon as an ISFP. The traditional "composer" type with finely developed Ni. The lifestyle matches, although that is less significant to the functions. I'm fairly certain he's Se/Ni.
    That doesn't even remotely fit Lennon. If nothing else he is a blatantly obvious N, and I would argue for NP, because his life was based on pushing the boundaries into new ideas and stirring up trouble for the sake of making a point (NOT just for the fun of it.)

    I place him as ENTP, though INTP is also possible. "Imagine" is about the most Ne song ever; it's all in the lyrics.

    McCartney is a clear ESFP and his songs tend to lyrically resemble Bob Dylan's (ISFP) in that they are almost always about concrete people, things and events, not to mention he's obviously a much more natural performer who's there for the joy of the experience.

    John was the one writing songs about broad-sweeping idealistic change and debunking popular myths (like his whole anti-Jesus tirade..."The Beatles are bigger than Jesus!" was classic ENTP pot-stirring.) He also wrote songs like "You're Gonna Lose That Girl", promising to deliberately steal this dude's girlfriend just to make a point/win the game. How hilariously NT. (Granted I could also see an STP doing this, but certainly not SFP...and an STP would be more likely to just DO it, not write a song imagining it...that's so distinctly NTP.)

    It's really funny that you'd place Lennon as anything other than NTP especially given his obvious contrast in this area to McCartney, who is SFP as all hell. Note McCartney's total disinterest in political commentary--he just wanted to play music because he loved playing music and that was good enough. Lennon had a clear political and idealistic agenda--that is decidedly not SP.

    When McCartney wrote something serious (like say, "Eleanor Rigby"), it was just apolitically humanistic. "All the lonely people, where do they all belong?" Fi all the way.

    When Lennon wrote something serious he was making deliberate political commentary to direct and effect changes in societal structure and people's attitudes about it. "But if you go carrying pictures of Chairman Mao, you ain't gonna make with anyone anyhow!" This is clear Ne/Ti sarcasm targeted at a specific political movement to express how dumb he thought its ideals were. How much more NTP can you get?

    Lennon was just so ridiculously anti-establishment and focused on massive change and vision for the future...he prided himself on being controversial, forward-thinking, witty/sardonic and above all unique. Talk about NTP!

    Anyway the Beatles overall:

    Lennon ENTP
    McCartney ESFP
    Harrison INFJ
    Starr ISFP

    Nothing you can sing that can't be sung.
    Nothing you can say but you can learn how to play the game
    It's easy.
    There's nothing you can make that can't be made.
    No one you can save that can't be saved.
    Nothing you can do but you can learn how to be you
    in time - It's easy.

    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  2. #12
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    Sorry, Lennon is not Ne/Si dominating whatsoever. He is without question Se/Ni.

  3. #13
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    ^ Do you have any actual evidence for that, or just mindless parroting of simple contradiction? What about Lennon suggests Se to you at all? Have you seen any live Beatles footage? He's awkward on stage just like George; Paul was the only one who had natural stage presence.

    I think I've provided numerous specific examples supporting my points, so if you care to respond to any of them, that'd be great.

    (But I'm sure simple contradiction will work too.)
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  4. #14
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    Well, you're typing his songs, not the actual person who is living and behaving, like an obvious Se/Ni dominant type. I'm also a composer, and I tend to write about many different aspects that aren't necessarily contained within typology, and some of these lyrics you may type as Ne, or whatnot. Still, not a good point. "He's awkward on stage." ??? That doesn't seem to support typology, unless by slight probability. You seem proud of your ENTP typing, so I'll just let you keep it without any trouble. I just don't agree, probably based on different terms that would take a while to sort out, which I don't have the time.

  5. #15
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by polikujm View Post
    Well, you're typing his songs, not the actual person who is living and behaving, like an obvious Se/Ni dominant type. I'm also a composer, and I tend to write about many different aspects that aren't necessarily contained within typology, and some of these lyrics you may type as Ne, or whatnot. Still, not a good point. "He's awkward on stage." ??? That doesn't seem to support typology, unless by slight probability. You seem proud of your ENTP typing, so I'll just let you keep it without any trouble. I just don't agree, probably based on different terms that would take a while to sort out, which I don't have the time.
    This isn't the first time someone has used the "YOU JUST THINK THAT CUZ YOU'RE ENTP TOO!" defense on me, and it's no more effective now than it was then.

    For the love of God, Lennon isn't even my favorite Beatle--I much prefer McCartney, who wasn't even an N at all. He was a better musician all around and I actually find it rather disingenuous that Lennon used his musical success to go on political soap boxes. McCartney played better, sang better, and wrote most of my favorite Beatles songs, and he was an ESFP, so no, your "you type all your heroes as ENTPs" theory doesn't even remotely hold up.

    Not to mention my other 905463 posts about musicians and their types, and the fact that I don't type 95% of them as ENTPs. If you'd ever read any of my other posts you'd know that, but hey, why bother knowing what you're talking about when you can just take a cheap shot and not bother defending yourself?

    It's ridiculous that you'd imply that I only think Lennon is ENTP because I'm ENTP. You'd need a lot more context than this one post to even suggest such a pattern in my typing, and you don't have it. (If you did, you wouldn't have suggested something so stupid.)

    As for being awkward on stage, it's one factor among many that suggest that Lennon was not an SP, because SPs are typically very natural performers given their quick adaptivity and strong awareness of physical surroundings. See how this combines with all the other factors I listed to produce a strong inductive argument for Lennon's type as an ENTP? This is typically considered a better argumentative method than simply saying, "Nuh uh!"

    So yeah, that is directly related to typology, and no, "You type all your favorite musicians as ENTP just because you are" is not and never will be any sort of valid argument. Read my posts before you make such a claim.

    And for that matter, back up your position. So far you've offered zero supporting evidence for Se use in Lennon, which I'm still eagerly awaiting.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  6. #16
    Senior Member Valuable_Money's Avatar
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    I always type lennon as ENTJ due to his ambition in making his band big. Also he shows alot of Te when he organized those peace rallys.
    Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh? wgah'nagl fhtagn

  7. #17
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    ^ Don't you think that, due to their overtly interpersonal nature, the organizing of others into peace rallies is much more Fe than Te?

    And a majority of famous entertainers are actually Ps, so that seems to kinda debunk the whole "only Js have ambition to get big" theory.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  8. #18
    Circus Maximus Sarcasticus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eye 'n' Teepee View Post
    John Lennon - A bit difficult as he was quite a complex character. Quite obviously he was an N. He also certainly seemed to be a P (he talked about how he would make decisions based on impulse, and how he never really planned anything. As far as I vs. E is concerned, he seemed to be able to switch between the two modes. At times he was very introspective, and at other times was a clown in front of the camera. My best guess would be ENFP, although he could very well be ENTP, or INTP, or INFP. A very tough one to type, indeed.
    Despite his brash and somewhat confrontational public persona he was actually quite introverted and famously reclusive. During the 1960s when McCartney was running around swinging London, John was content to stay home with his family in the suburbs. I'd grant that he could be between E and I though.

    I say he's an NF because of his love of word-play and the fact that he was quite gifted lyically. Usually NF tendencies.

  9. #19
    Circus Maximus Sarcasticus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    ^ Don't you think that, due to their overtly interpersonal nature, the organizing of others into peace rallies is much more Fe than Te?
    That's more Yoko's influence, really (ENFJ).

  10. #20
    Senior Member BlahBlahNounBlah's Avatar
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    In my opinion, John Lennon is an ENTP (low on extroversion, but ENTPs are frequently low on extroversion). And I usually disagree about many of the people who are assumed to be one.

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