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  1. #11
    Glowy Goopy Goodness The_Liquid_Laser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Economica View Post
    Opinion duly noted. However, I don't buy this argument...:

    ... And I urge other thread participants who, like me, find your arguments for P unconvincing to focus on the S/N dimension instead.
    Could you elaborate why you don't buy that argument?

    You bolded this quote:
    I can intuit people's behavior and their feelings.
    Now if I had no clue who you were referring to when you gave that quote, I would guess the person is either an ENFP or INFJ, because the ability to intuit people's behavior and feelings comes from perception. You said that this is a "quintessential ENFJ quote". No it isn't. It's a quintessential ENFP quote.

    If you gave a quote that said something like, "I can connect with anyone no matter who they are", then I would think "Yes that is a quintessential ENFJ quote. Maybe Economica is right and Reese Witherspoon is dominant Fe." Because Fe is useful for bonding with people while Ne is useful for understanding people. This is not to say that ENFJ's are clueless. ENFJ's are quite proficient at understanding people just like ENFP's are quite proficient at bonding with people. But if you are wanting to start with a quintessential quote, then you picked one for an ENFP. What it looks like to me is that you are describing an ENFP and then calling it an ENFJ.

    What is the evidence that RW 'focuses more on broad concepts' instead of excelling in 'chemistry with other actors, gestures, body language, etc.'? Personally I'd say she nails the latter.
    She does have good chemistry with other actors, because she is a P and P's have an advantage in being able to react to other actors. But the best SP's are even better at this than she is.

    Take Tom Cruise for instance. When other actors that have worked with him talk about him, they will say how he is incredibly receptive. He will be able to react to any new thing they try and can go with it, and he always seems to create good chemistry with them (except maybe Nicole Kidman, but that is another subject ). When it comes to interacting with the other actors, Tom Cruise is one of the best. One the other hand when it comes to creating a new personality...he sucks. All of Tom Cruise's characters have basically the same personality. Tom Cruise has a heavily SP acting style. It's concrete and focuses on the moment, but when he doesn't put much thought behind different personality types.

    Reese Witherspoon on the other hand acts like an N. N's can create entirely new personas. Her character from "Pleasantville" is not like her character from "Election" which is unlike her character from "Legally Blond", etc.... All of her characters are entirely new concepts. Instead of focusing on a person's actions she looks for the meaning behind the actions and puts them together in a new coherant personality.

    You can often identify whether an actor is S or N based on this alone, because it tells you how they perceive the world. Johnny Depp, Tom Hanks, and Reese Witherspoon are all N. Tom Cruise and Clint Eastwood are S. I have an SP friend that thinks Clint Eastwood is the greatest actor alive. I think he's ok, but am not impressed because his characters usually have a very similar personality. He thinks Clint Eastwood is great because of how he acts and reacts to things. N's respond more to the N acting style and S's respond more to the S acting style.

    P.S. If you are looking for an ESFJ actress then you might want to consider Sally Field.
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  2. #12
    Glowy Goopy Goodness The_Liquid_Laser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    OK, I really do think RW is an ENFJ, and AT THE VERY LEAST an EFJ.

    I don't think most of these distinguish between J/P, but I'd look for Fe or Ne in her quotes. I see more Fe than Ne. I'm not saying that ENFPs don't have a work ethic or anything, I just don't hear Ps making these comments. They're all about flow, not focus.
    I think some of these quotes favor P, some favor J and plenty go either way.

    "Actors have this influence - people ask about our clothes and things like that," she says. "I don't want my politics to become part of that. It's personal to me."---Witherspoon to Entertainment Weekly, August 24, 2007.

    "Filmmaking is a collaborative process. I have things to add, and whether someone chooses to use them is their prerogative. But I'm not going to shut up, I have a lot to say, and I don't let anybody give me any shit. I have earned the right to have an opinion, so when people don't listen to me, I get a little pissed off."---Witherspoon to Premiere, August 2001.

    "Getting older, I think you just have to accept that we're all just big goobers. I think that's what brings peace in life; realizing sooner rather than later that we're all just big goobs!"---Witherspoon US Weekly, September 2, 2002.

    "I don't fuck around. I don't think it's a joke that people put up $20 million to finance a movie. I show up. I know my lines."---Witherspoon on her work ethic, quoted in Premiere, August 2001.

    "I'm very lucky to have a very great team of people that sort of help me make decisions, help me schedule my life, that kind of thing. But also, yeah, I think it's also about loving what you do and I think people see that and I think they can tell in a film if you're having a lot of fun and enjoying yourself, or if you're just sort of miserable and sleepwalking. I really love what I do. I have a great passion for it."---Reese Witherspoon on her success to filmforce.ign.com, June 30, 2003. I don't think this is indicative of J or P, but I included it anyway.

    "I've argued with lots of directors, because they pay you to come in and give your two cents about your character. It's going to be you up there on the screen and you should know better than anybody what you're doing."---Witherspoon quoted in Interview, November 1994.
    Just a little note. I can't imagine a dominant Fe, especially one raised in the South, swearing in the middle of an interview. I can imagine them swearing in a more casual situation, but even then they'll say "Pardon my language" or something. It is very much in character for an xNFP to behave considerately most of the time and then out of no where let a swear word fly, because it expresses exactly how they feel, and they might do it in the middle of a formal setting.

    Also J's, especially SJ's, tend to respect authority more than P's do. Arguing with a director is more of a P trait. Although there are plenty of J's might do this too, so that's not heavily conclusive either way.

    "It's nice to have people's support and goodwill behind you because there are certainly times when you don't have it. The greatest thing about the success that I am having now is that I've had years and years to sort of succeed and fail. When you have all the ups and downs of a career, then you know this is the good stuff and I feel very lucky to be so supported"---Witherspoon.

    "It irritates me that the sort of fad that 'stupidity is cute' might really be doing some serious damage. It's the cheap answer, and let's hope that their moment fades. Sorry, but I have a little girl."---Witherspoon quoted to W, February 2006.

    "There's no dumb blonde in her," says Gary Ross. "This is a brilliant blonde who was very focused and mature at a very early age. She was always very confident and driven."---director Gary Ross on Witherspoon to Vanity Fair, September 2004.
    Actually ENxP's can appear very driven. They can appear more driven than practically any other type when they are at the start of a project. ENxP's tend to have an infectious enthusiasm that gets everyone involved. ENxP's appear unfocused, because it won't take them too long before they want to do something else. It's easy for an ENxP to get too much on their plate.

    In Hollywood that is not too much of a problem, since actors generally only have to stay with any one picture for a few months. An ENFP would appear driven all the time in an environment like that.

    "There's something about overt sexuality ... " She shudders. "Like it's scatological or something! I'm all about trying to make movies that have nothing to do with my body. I'm prudish and nervous. I don't have the excuse that my grandmother is watching anymore, but she's watching!" Witherspoon looks up. "It makes me nervous when I see a woman with her midriff showing. I would never do that on purpose, and if it happened by accident I'd be mortified. I feel threatened by woman who ...eeewwww!" She covers her face with her hands. "Like women on the cover of hootchy-kootchy magazines! The way I was brought up, I wasn't allowed to wear black, and I wasn't allowed to wear bikinis. And I was only allowed to wear two shades of lipstick, peach or pink. It was all about what was 'appropriate.'"---Witherspoon quoted to Vanity Fair, September 2004

    "Who is so arrogant and vain that they don't want people to know they're real or human? That they're fallible? We are all just people. That's part of what's amazing about being an actor. It's about compassion and deep feeling for other people's pain or struggle or drive. I never feel above them. I never feel beneath them. That's probably what led me to this profession."---Witherspoon to Interview magazine, December/January 2006.

    On Tracy Flick, her blindly ambitious character in "Election":"Tracy for any actress is irresistible. She was like so many people I knew and grew up with. Everyone knows one of those horrible people that you want to kill because they're so perfect and you can't. This character is for all intents and purposes likeable. But you just can't stand her."---quoted to The Boston Herald, May 3, 1999.
    The interesting thing about the character Tracy Flick is that she is the most "J" character that Reese has portrayed. It's pretty clear here, but in other interviews she specifically spells it out: She is not a thing like Tracy Flick. There was a girl she knew in high school that was the main inspiration for the character, and according to Reese they are not a thing alike. This is one of the clearest indicators that she is not a J.
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  3. #13
    Dhampyr Economica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Liquid_Laser View Post
    You bolded this quote:
    I can intuit people's behavior and their feelings.
    Now if I had no clue who you were referring to when you gave that quote,
    But you did. I stated that I was sure she was an EFJ and that I would like to closely examine the S/N dimension. I then brought to the table the most NF quote in the interview I linked to order to show that I was aware of it but still would like to seriously discuss the possibility of her being an ESFJ.

    Could you elaborate why you don't buy that argument?
    Yes, sorry, I should have done that to begin with. I guess I was just disappointed that proteanmix's attention had apparently been derailed from my interest in the S/N dimension to yours in the P/J.

    I dismissed your argument ("That is something a dominant perceiver would say, rather than a dominant judger") because I don't believe that one can type people from a single quote, so even if the quote was more quintessentially ENFP (or INFJ) than ENFJ, it wouldn't matter to me in the face of so much evidence (as I see it) for EFJ.

    Reese Witherspoon on the other hand acts like an N. N's can create entirely new personas. Her character from "Pleasantville" is not like her character from "Election" which is unlike her character from "Legally Blond", etc.... All of her characters are entirely new concepts. Instead of focusing on a person's actions she looks for the meaning behind the actions and puts them together in a new coherant personality.
    I haven't seen enough of her movies to get a good idea of her range outside the SJ spectrum. As Blackwater asks, has she ever played any N characters? In Cruel Intentions I believe her character is supposed to be an INFJ* but IMO she comes off as an ISFJ.

    * The movie is based on the novel Dangerous Liaisons in which her character is an INFJ.

    P.S. If you are looking for an ESFJ actress then you might want to consider Sally Field.
    Thanks for the tip. I don't recall having seen any of her movies though, so I'm holding out for someone more (currently) famous.

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Liquid_Laser View Post
    The interesting thing about the character Tracy Flick is that she is the most "J" character that Reese has portrayed. It's pretty clear here, but in other interviews she specifically spells it out: She is not a thing like Tracy Flick. There was a girl she knew in high school that was the main inspiration for the character, and according to Reese they are not a thing alike. This is one of the clearest indicators that she is not a J.
    I've researched a lot of actors by now and it's a common claim that they're not at all like their characters. I don't take their word for it, instead I go by my own impression and I do in fact think RW has the 'annoyingly perfect' thing going on. Just watch the longer interview I link to in the OP.

    Regarding ENFJ/ESFJ, I'd really like people's comments on the following:

    Quote Originally Posted by Economica View Post
    When watching interviews with her, I don't actually see her 'see through' people the way I normally find that ENFJs do; she doesn't seem to be as naturally in touch with and playing to the responses of the interviewer as definite ENFJ Kate Winslet.

  4. #14
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    I've been chastised by Economica.

    I have but one more quote to submit about RW being an EFJ:

    It really bothers me when people don't use coasters. Particularly on my table.
    That about sums up the anal retentive depths Fe is able to sink to. And I completely empathize.

    I rest my case.
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
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  5. #15
    Dhampyr Economica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    I've been chastised by Economica.
    I wasn't chastising you; I was reminding readers of my interest in the S/N dimension and in the process revealing that I value your opinion.

  6. #16
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Economica View Post
    I wasn't chastising you; I was reminding readers of my interest in the S/N dimension and in the process revealing that I value your opinion.
    Joke

    Hmmm, I'm thinking that I come across as more serious than I am.
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
    Social Penetration Theory 1
    Social Penetration Theory 2
    Social Penetration Theory 3

  7. #17
    On a mission Usehername's Avatar
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    For the record, I'm still thinking INTJ. I have yet to see anything here that refutes that.
    *You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body.
    *Faith is the art of holding on to things your reason once accepted, despite your changing moods.
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  8. #18
    Dhampyr Economica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    Joke

    Hmmm, I'm thinking that I come across as more serious than I am.


    No, I'm just slow today. It's not you, it's me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Usehername View Post
    For the record, I'm still thinking INTJ. I have yet to see anything here that refutes that.
    How you can see Reese Witherspoon and Julia Stiles as the same type is beyond me.

  9. #19
    On a mission Usehername's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Economica View Post
    How you can see Reese Witherspoon and Julia Stiles as the same type is beyond me.
    it totally works in my head!

    (one is the INTJ who has decided to put much value in relationships (RW) and while I won't say JS doesn't value relationships, you can see her as just the more prototypical INTJ)
    *You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body.
    *Faith is the art of holding on to things your reason once accepted, despite your changing moods.
    C.S. Lewis

  10. #20
    Glowy Goopy Goodness The_Liquid_Laser's Avatar
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    I typed a hugely long response to this thread and it got eaten. Now I feel stupid for not saving it as I went, lol.
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