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  1. #21
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    No one has guessed xSTP yet, so that's my guess.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  2. #22
    Glowy Goopy Goodness The_Liquid_Laser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IF3157 View Post
    Ok, let's deal with the Fe.
    The whole shtick of the show is that he offends people left right and center because he's oblivious to how they feel. The strength of Fe is that the user is sensitive to other's feelings and can accurately gauge or predict what these are.
    No he's not oblivious to how they feel. He just thinks they should act differently. He has his own self created rules for etiquette and social norms. In other words he has Fe, but it has been horribly warped by his Ni to act in a way that Fe normally does not.

    Another way to see that he is a feeler is that he goes home and obsesses over all his interactions with people he had during the day. A thinker (especially an NTP) wouldn't care about that sort of thing. A person who is highly analytical toward relationships is an INFJ. The Fe is focused toward people, and the Ni takes an interaction and analyzes it over and over from multiple perspectives.

    Larry is a failure at Fe.

    When he's clued into how other's see, some more conflict comes from his machinations because: 1) He often doesn't think they should be offended; it doesn't make sense to him so he keeps offending (there's little adaptation to people's sensitivities) or 2) He applies his Ti to try to solve the problem, with disastrous results because he lacks that touch of the pol.
    He offends, because they aren't conforming to his own social rules. He makes fun of someone for taking too many free samples. That is an etiquette breach, but it's ettiquette he invented himself. NTP's don't invent a bunch of rules for how people other people should act. Generally NTP's tend to apply morality only to themselves. (This is because of introverted judgement.)

    As for the irritation - I can see how this could be an INFJ, but I cannot agree with your reasoning by negation of this as a trait in NTPs. He is cranky, misanthropic and caustic, particularly where people try to call something one thing when he sees it as another. He is particular about precision in language and will argue something for aaaages if he feels the definition wrong, no matter how the other party feels about it ("suicide"bomber episode for example).
    NTP's as a rule are not known for being emotional, especially INTP's. If they don't like someone they generally don't show it, because INTP's don't show much emotion in general. ENTP's don't get irritated much either. They might irritate others, but they don't get bothered too much by this.

    As for the rest: watch the "what do you hate thread" for various INTx peeved off about the failure of people to follow certain basic rules of behaviour. every nf i've known has been more forgiving and less critical about such things.
    Again INTP's tend to keep it to themselves. INFJ's get irritated more but they usually keep it to themselves too. But INFJ's often fantasize about what they'd like to do as a sort of revenge toward whomever has upset them. This is what "Curb Your Enthusiasm" is about. It's about an INFJ acting out fantasies that they are usually too timid to act on in real life.
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  3. #23
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    Yeah I think INFJ is a pretty good guess.

    Everyone who says that since he argues with people all the time he's not an Fe user -- uh....maybe you should reassess your understanding of the functions.

  4. #24
    now! in shell form INA's Avatar
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    Liquid,

    I think he is often oblivious to how others feel, though not to how they think. Look how many times Cheryl or Jeff or somebody else has to let him know he hurt someone's feelings! Sometimes it's on purpose, sure, but often he just says things and then later when people get mad his reaction is: "you gotta be kidding me?!" and tries to justify himself. Usually, in his mind he's not wrong - something that can be both an INFJ and INTP trait. But if he can see that it makes sense, he tries to make it right. It doesn't seem that he takes their potential feelings into concern much beforehand - neither to please them nor to annoy them b/c he disagrees.

    I think where we disagree is that, what you would call his awareness of others' feelings, I see as his awareness of others' motivations, which are two separate things. I can see him eying someone up and down suspiciously or quickly and deftly intuiting their selfish motivations lying beneath what they are saying and why it doesn't square with how he sees it. And he refuses to let them get away with skewing how he sees the world for their own reasons.

    I'm not sure I agree with you that NTs can't be irritable sorts - especially the hypersensitive varieties of INTPs. I don't think it can be said that all INTPs are stoic paragons of restraint, though they don't rant and rave as much as, say, ENFPs. Maybe I should read MOAR type descriptions. It is well known that INTPs in particular can be pretty peevish, outspoken and stubborn if you violate their principles. Out of all proportion even. And you violate those principles by being irrational, unreasonable or unfair. Surround them with these guys and demand that they conform their behavior to irrational emotional people and it can get ugly. He can go off often, but - and maybe I'm biased because i usually agree with him - he is often in exactly such circumstances. That's why I looked less at the fact of his being irritable and looked rather at what it was that gets him cranky, critical and argumentative.

    As for his having internal, moral system - It doesn't seem to me that he has formulated a complex moral code so much as he resists and rejects anything that doesn't support his own experiential understanding of the world, another INTP trait. And the very things that keep ticking him off are the things you would expect to clash with INTPs outlook. This is what makes them so cynical, caustic and misanthropic

    Plus if you look at how he handles people being emotional - Larry is uncomfortable and awkward, even if there's nothing about the situation that he disagrees with. He doesn't enjoy people and they don't enjoy him. He doesn't like their emotional demands on him. His demands on others, however, are pretty reasonable . . . at least to me.


    Where I am inclined to think he's INFJ is that he appears stay pretty wound up about the conflict. I don't agree that INTPs don't go home and rehash and overanalyze the arguments that they had with a person. Hell, one of the favorite pastimes with one of my INFJ friends is that we kvetch to each other about people who pissed us off and rip on them pretty nastily. Only we appreciate this bloodsport to a high degree. It's pretty entertaining. Because we're both introverts, we're not as likely to let the irritating people on to that fact. But I do agree that NTs can detach pretty easily after that when the INFJ stews. It takes a lot to have an INTP holding a grudge. INFJ? Not so much. And NTs probably don't stay wound up as much as Larry seems to.

    Anyway, if he's INFJ, I have to change my type
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  5. #25
    Senior Member miked277's Avatar
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    entp, definitely.

    saying that larry is primary/secondary Fe because the show is about relationships is like saying spiderman is evil since his stories are about dealing with the evil in others.

    like others have said, larry completely fails at Fe and everyone around him (except for maybe Jeff) seems to be an extraverted judger if theyre not primarily Fe.
    I'm feeling rough, I'm feeling raw, I'm in the prime of my life.

  6. #26
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    Gah, you guys need to learn the definition of Fe.

    It does NOT mean being nice. It does NOT mean being good at understanding other people's feelings.

    It means that feelings are determined by/motivated by tangible evidence.

  7. #27
    Senior Member miked277's Avatar
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    from cognitiveprocesses.com;
    The process of extraverted Feeling often involves a desire to connect with (or disconnect from) others and is often evidenced by expressions of warmth (or displeasure) and self-disclosure. The social graces, such as being polite, being nice, being friendly, being considerate, and being appropriate, often revolve around the process of extraverted Feeling. Keeping in touch, laughing at jokes when others laugh, and trying to get people to act kindly to each other also involve extraverted Feeling. Using this process, we respond according to expressed or even unexpressed wants and needs of others. We may ask people what they want or need or self-disclose to prompt them to talk more about themselves. This often sparks conversation and lets us know more about them so we can better adjust our behavior to them. Often with this process, we feel pulled to be responsible and take care of others feelings, sometimes to the point of not separating our feelings from theirs. We may recognize and adhere to shared values, feelings, and social norms to get along.
    the show in a nutshell is larry being aggrivated by others impinging on his (often silly and selfish) moral code and then larry aggrivating others' (usually sensible if overly sensitive) moral code. essentially, saying or doing the most inappropriate thing at the most inappropriate time.

    i find it amusing that anyone could see larry as an *nfj... a healthy one or otherwise.
    I'm feeling rough, I'm feeling raw, I'm in the prime of my life.

  8. #28
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    That definition is crap unfortunately.

    He always talks about what people should do; what their values should be, the social dynamics of situations, etc. Obviously Fe. Intuition is still the dominant function, though, which is why conforming to social norms isn't much of a priority.

    His Ni visions (the way he thinks things should be) are clearly expressed through Fe and not Te. If you can't see this, you should probably read Jung.

  9. #29
    Senior Member miked277's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dissonance View Post
    That definition is crap unfortunately.

    He always talks about what people should do; what their values should be, the social dynamics of situations, etc. Obviously Fe. Intuition is still the dominant function, though, which is why conforming to social norms isn't much of a priority.

    His Ni visions (the way he thinks things should be) are clearly expressed through Fe and not Te. If you can't see this, you should probably read Jung.
    ok, show me a definition of extraverted feeling that isn't crap and then i can tell you you're wrong based on that
    I'm feeling rough, I'm feeling raw, I'm in the prime of my life.

  10. #30
    Babylon Candle Venom's Avatar
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    I cant imagine an INFJ actually taking the time to hash it out. INFJs arguing in inappropriate forums, over inappropriate things? INFJ would be more likely to be offended and then go sulk. Even ENFJs, they will get upset and irrational that their Fe has been stepped on. He fails at Fe, period.

    Typing him as a Fe would be like typing the most illogical character ever, as Ti.
    its more likely that an ENTP would amuse himself by taking the time hash it over Fe.

    I love Seinfeld and Curb mainly because I generally dislike Fe. He fails at Fe, and I get to laugh

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