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  1. #101
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mad Hatter View Post
    Quite possible that he's a J (come on, he's a neat freak! - but that could also be some baby Si thing or something). He's a T, hands down, and slightly more E than I. Still kinda hard to figure out. Maybe ENTP or ENFP.
    Elaine - either ESTJ or ENTJ, but probably the latter.
    Kramer: ESTP posterchild
    George: Probably INTP, but INFP / ISFP would also be possible
    Oh yes, George is an intellectual scheming salesman type.

    And he's lucky if he can get his tie on straight. Or are you talking about Jerry? You didn't quote reply. Jerry's an obvious J.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  2. #102
    figsfiggyfigs
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mad Hatter View Post
    Quite possible that he's a J (come on, he's a neat freak! - but that could also be some baby Si thing or something). He's a T, hands down, and slightly more E than I. Still kinda hard to figure out. Maybe ENTP or ENFP.
    Elaine - either ESTJ or ENTJ, but probably the latter.
    Kramer: ESTP posterchild
    George: Probably INTP, but INFP / ISFP would also be possible
    I couldnt decide if kramer was ESTP or ENTP. But yes, Jerry is really OCD about order and germs.

  3. #103
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    This is George in a nutshell:

    http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Myers-B...Indicator/ESFP

    ESFPs at work and school

    ESFPs see work as play. They like to whistle, drum, sing, talk or joke while they are doing work to keep what they are learning fun for them. This could cause teachers, mostly SJs, to feel that they are not paying attention. It could also be disturbing to people who like quiet when they think. ESFPs learn best when they are having fun. They also look at the person who is speaking to them as they can feel sound vibrations strongly. As they work they celebrate small accomplishments in what they are doing before moving on to the next, happy for what they have done, rather then being sad at what they still have to do. When they work with more logical things such as mathematics, they want to know how it relates to life right now. Preferring a hands-on approach, subjects like those can bore them. Their favorite subjects are ones that they have an interest in and ones that they can do things with and apply to the world around them. Music, drama, dance, competitive sports and computers are among many they like. They may also go into those areas when choosing their careers. Careers that may appeal to ESFPs are: actor, musician, stand up comedian, dancer, dance instructor, their favorite position in their sport of choice, gardener, painter, sculptor and chef. Sometimes though, it's hard for them to decide.

    ESFPs in relationships

    ESFPs are warm, loving, generous and sympathetic. They especially like physical affection such as hugs, kisses, petting on the head, massages, snuggles, tickles, and just being held. They show their love through those ways as well as surprising friends and loved ones with gifts. They want fun, variety, spontaneity, travel and adventure in their relationships and are usually not keen on settling down. This could be because of fear of rejection, commitment or because they found someone else. They like to keep things light and happy and not get into anything deep and lasting unless they are sure and have thought it out, which could take a while. This could cause their mates to express impatience which would make the ESFPs nervous and withdraw from them. ESFPs do not do well with anxiety, and are highly sensitive. When they can't make people smile with their charming ways and their playfulness, they feel bad as though it was their fault and leave. When they are in their best mood, they are seen as bouncy, hyperactive and childlike. They go from one activity to another so they won't be bored. When feeling their worst, they are moody, likely to beat themselves up (physically and/or mentally), call themselves unintelligent, think nobody takes them seriously and feel better after a good cry.

    How to deal with an ESFP

    Explain things clearly, Appeal to their common sense, Do something they enjoy with them, Discuss things over a break in the action and then get right back into the fun, give them lots of tlc.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  4. #104
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Scheming George's plan backfires - again. (Aka George acts annoyed.)

    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  5. #105
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YWIR View Post
    I couldnt decide if kramer was ESTP or ENTP. But yes, Jerry is really OCD about order and germs.
    Kramer is ENTP, 7W6 Sp/So.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  6. #106
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Geessh. I don't even remember what Bizarro George [is that what you meant?] was like...!

    Or just the opposite of George?

    I don't see George as truly philosophical or imaginative, and his inclinations usually revolve around concrete plans and schemes and social prestige and false impressions (he's a "playah"). And he lacks so much foresight that his plans always fail.

    An INTP would be more apt to have carefully reasoned plans that would have both its strengths and weaknesses clearly calculated (George fails to see the holes in his plans)... and an INTP would be less apt to try to implement his plans.

    George also seems to operate within the social system, rather than apart from it. INTPs are very prone to complaining about society and how stupid its ideals are; George only complains because he is not being "given his fair shake" by society, and he strives to gain what society says is good. So he plays within the rules/mindset.
    Your analysis is phenomenal. You put a lot of energy into typing others at one time, but I can see why it eventually became tiring.

    'George only complains because he is not being "given his fair shake" by society.' Yes, but he complains because he wants attention in order to find security in those he complains to.

    I can see where you get ISFJ, but he is far too playful to be a J. And I never see introverts yell and gesture around as dramatically as George does.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  7. #107
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mal12345 View Post
    I can see where you get ISFJ, but he is far too playful to be a J. And I never see introverts yell and gesture around as dramatically as George does.
    Yes, the bolded would be an anomaly at least for female ISFJs; probably male ones too. So that's a good point; but the things he is frustrated with can help pinpoint type.

    I wouldn't say he's "playful," though; all of his play seems to have a serious undertone to it. In fact, one of his looming problems is that he takes himself far too seriously and can't handle it when others don't.

    I think farcical sitcoms, where the characters are extremes, have trouble portraying true introverts because everything has to be extroverted (or overdubbed) to be visible to the viewer. Thus, even introverts who appear on these shows are typically more extroverted than normal. It's one of the difficulties, the introversion has to be intuited/triangulated upon through other means.

    Another BIG issue is that George is highly dysfunctional and has been raised by two loud, extroverted parents, so in order to cope (and honestly, both of his parents are at the extreme end of extroversion... his mom's probably ESFJ, his dad is probably ESTx), George himself had two choices: Slink away or become louder than life as well, just to be noticed.

    Honestly, I don't really know what type George "truly" is, since he's a caricature, like the other characters on the show.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  8. #108
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Yes, the bolded would be an anomaly at least for female ISFJs; probably male ones too. So that's a good point; but the things he is frustrated with can help pinpoint type.

    I wouldn't say he's "playful," though; all of his play seems to have a serious undertone to it. In fact, one of his looming problems is that he takes himself far too seriously and can't handle it when others don't.

    I think farcical sitcoms, where the characters are extremes, have trouble portraying true introverts because everything has to be extroverted (or overdubbed) to be visible to the viewer. Thus, even introverts who appear on these shows are typically more extroverted than normal. It's one of the difficulties, the introversion has to be intuited/triangulated upon through other means.

    Another BIG issue is that George is highly dysfunctional and has been raised by two loud, extroverted parents, so in order to cope (and honestly, both of his parents are at the extreme end of extroversion... his mom's probably ESFJ, his dad is probably ESTx), George himself had two choices: Slink away or become louder than life as well, just to be noticed.

    Honestly, I don't really know what type George "truly" is, since he's a caricature, like the other characters on the show.
    "Taking oneself seriously" is not a defining characteristic of type as far as I know. George is sloppy, he's lazy, he sleeps under his desk and had the underside of his desk made into a miniature boudoir so he could enjoy some tv show until 4 am and then take naps during the day at work. See the video I posted above.

    But no, George is not at the extreme of extraversion.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  9. #109
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mal12345 View Post
    "Taking oneself seriously" is not a defining characteristic of type as far as I know. George is sloppy, he's lazy, he sleeps under his desk and had the underside of his desk made into a miniature boudoir so he could enjoy some tv show until 4 am and then take naps during the day at work. See the video I posted above.
    I'm not sure what you are saying here. He still takes himself seriously -- he has such a HUGE disconnect between what he actually does and the way he desires to present himself, it's like he's created all these fake images of himself that he's not even aware of what he truly is, and hates it when someone shines illumination on him.

    I didn't reread my prior posts, and I'm guessing I made them a LOOONNNNG time ago... and I'm about to go on a house-cleaning spree, so ....

    At the moment, I scan him as very S (his "flights of fancy" don't have the natural coherency of typical N intuition), and he's still rather conventional and conservative (I'm inclined to say J). His extroversion seems very forced; if he didn't have the psycho parents he had and NEED to be loud, I think he'd be pretty sedate even if garrulous. That leaves him at ISJ, but I'm not really happy with any read for him; in Enneagram, I'd start by examining the Threes and the Sixes. (George creates false images of himself like Threes; however, his anxiety-styled behavior and how he positions himself to authority is very Six. Ironically, it's common for ISTJs to weigh in as Sixes.)
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  10. #110
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    I'm not sure what you are saying here. He still takes himself seriously -- he has such a HUGE disconnect between what he actually does and the way he desires to present himself, it's like he's created all these fake images of himself that he's not even aware of what he truly is, and hates it when someone shines illumination on him.

    I didn't reread my prior posts, and I'm guessing I made them a LOOONNNNG time ago... and I'm about to go on a house-cleaning spree, so ....

    At the moment, I scan him as very S (his "flights of fancy" don't have the natural coherency of typical N intuition), and he's still rather conventional and conservative (I'm inclined to say J). His extroversion seems very forced; if he didn't have the psycho parents he had and NEED to be loud, I think he'd be pretty sedate even if garrulous. That leaves him at ISJ, but I'm not really happy with any read for him; in Enneagram, I'd start by examining the Threes and the Sixes. (George creates false images of himself like Threes; however, his anxiety-styled behavior and how he positions himself to authority is very Six. Ironically, it's common for ISTJs to weigh in as Sixes.)
    Agreed. Your observations are awe-inspiring yet. George, a 6, draws a lot of his energy from the 3 side. But where I am going in my last post, and with the video, is a typical example of George scheming to bring himself some temporary Se comforts in life.

    Of course, you can always say that anything someone does is for show. Perhaps George behaves extravertedly only to get the attention he craves, a behavior he learned from his dysfunctional family growing up.

    But all I know is what I see, as always. None of the main cast of characters on Seinfeld is being represented as a nice person. They are victims, but only because their scheming ways end in consequences for them, although the real victims remain unaware of the schemes. Reality is more complex than any scheme George can devise, so there are always unintended consequences.

    Some of George's schemes are really simple. Take, for example, the time he got fired. His plan to get unfired was simple, yet ineffective: he nonchalantly waltzed back into the board meeting room the next morning, sat down and acted as if nothing had happened. Of course he was spotted immediately, and his boss asked him, "George, what are you doing here?" Foiled again.

    My point is to use examples to show that George is not an ISFJ, in that such behavior is uncharacteristic of the ISFJ type who is more of an obedient type.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

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