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  1. #81
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    I'm going to have to go with INTJ. Here is why. Clearly she is expressing a lot of Te. That narrows it down to some sort of TJ and I have at times in the past thought she must be a Te dom because of the obvious strength of that function. The problem is though that with INTJs, you don't see the dominant function easily. It is hard to discern. Having studied ways to pick up on it, Ni is in my opinion the hardest function to tell if someone is using and I say that as someone who has it as a dominant function.

    The thing that has struck me with her answers in the debates is that they are so well thought through and detailed. Not only that, her answers wreak of an overall understanding of and focus on the big picture. Her answers are often insightful and make you think. Among the TJ types, in society (though not on typology forums), INTJs are probably the least liked. People often don't understand them. Hilary is like that. She is a bit of an enigma. People haven't liked her much since she was the first lady. She is a bit stiff. She doesn't smile much. Oppose that to someone like Marco Rubio (ENTJ). The ENTJ is dynamic, inspiring and are more instantly liked by others. ENTJs do not get into the enormous detail that Hillary would when they explain something. The speak at a higher level. As to ESTJs - I think of Chris Christie. Hillary is absolutely nothing like Chris Christie. As to ISTJ - look at Jeb Bush. She really doesn't come across like that at all either. With respect to her public speaking and obvious confidence, in addition to being an attorney, I think that she has been coached heavily over the years, probably initially when she was first lady. She has been practicing for 20 years. You can kind of tell when she is doing a pithy one liners that she was taught to do because it always feels awkward. Her natural style is like in the debates where she is talking about international relations.


    I see you argument clearly. But there is the other side of the medal and that is how many INTJs are willing to go so public with their life and opinions ? Not many and almost certainly not the ones that are 5s. I personally think that she a 3 or 6. (on the second thought she is surely being fed with acting/saying the "correct" stuff but she often fails at this because she simply is not hardwired for this ... and then she comes as a fake. What suggests a 6 or parhaps even one very pragmatic 1 or 8w9)


    Rubio is what he is becase he is completely stereotypical e3 person from what I see, what is required in America out of everybody that really really wants to be something (what is actually very Fe like behaviour). While real ENTJ may have quite a problem with all those ass kissing, since it is grosse and humiliating. One of the reasons why I was mistyped was because ENTJ profiles are so biased towards corporate America that for me as none American that made it really hard to relate to the ENTJ profiles (and I still don't for the large part). America is in so deep crisis right now exactly because it forgot what is good and good quality leadership and instead it prefers stereotypical e3 careerists that have a serious lack of knowledge how the world really works. Today you have a whole culture of people that want to be " the ENTJs" but even most of sucessful onces are obviously not. This type got so mixed with success that this made a caricature that basically no one can measure up to (except some really wealthy investors). Therefore she struggles in this regard but she must make certain groups happy if she wants to do something. ENTJ and especially eNTJ really isn't that much different than INTJ with the exception of how easy they find to engage the world ... and I see no major problems in that regard with her.




    (but as I said I am not an expert on this woman)

  2. #82
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Virtual ghost View Post
    I see you argument clearly. But there is the other side of the medal and that is how many INTJs are willing to go so public with their life and opinions ? Not many and almost certainly not the ones that are 5s. I personally think that she a 3 or 6. (on the second thought she is surely being fed with acting/saying the "correct" stuff but she often fails at this because she simply is not hardwired for this ... and then she comes as a fake. What suggests a 6 or parhaps even one very pragmatic 1 or 8w9)


    Rubio is what he is becase he is completely stereotypical e3 person from what I see, what is required in America out of everybody that really really wants to be something (what is actually very Fe like behaviour). While real ENTJ may have quite a problem with all those ass kissing, since it is grosse and humiliating. One of the reasons why I was mistyped was because ENTJ profiles are so biased towards corporate America that for me as none American that made it really hard to relate to the ENTJ profiles (and I still don't for the large part). America is in so deep crisis right now exactly because it forgot what is good and good quality leadership and instead it prefers stereotypical e3 careerists that have a serious lack of knowledge how the world really works. Today you have a whole culture of people that want to be " the ENTJs" but even most of sucessful onces are obviously not. This type got so mixed with success that this made a caricature that basically no one can measure up to (except some really wealthy investors). Therefore she struggles in this regard but she must make certain groups happy if she wants to do something. ENTJ and especially eNTJ really isn't that much different than INTJ with the exception of how easy they find to engage the world ... and I see no major problems in that regard with her.

    (but as I said I am not an expert on this woman)
    Yikes. I guess this says something to how popular she is. I do share some of the concerns about integrity.


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  3. #83
    Senior Member Ursa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EliaBlack View Post
    Yes, she is.
    She is a Te-dom and it shows in how flustered she gets when people question her/her policies. Her response to a challenge isn't to compromise or diplomatically try to win them over; it's to assert herself.

    She also pretty clearly has aux Si. She has more traditional views, despite being a democrat, and those views stem from how she was raised. SJ types tend to base their views and beliefs on how they were raised, rather than questioning those views.

    Also she reminds me of an ESTJ I know, like they have creepily similar personalities. That doesn't count as a legit argument, but still.
    STJs base their views on what has been proven to work over time with evidence, not necessarily what is traditional. Think tried and true, rather than tradition-oriented. Tried and true is much more reason-based, which what we Te-users need and want. There are numerous traditions that, based on my experience and on others' experience, are unreasonable because they reap bad consequences or because they simply don't work. In this way STJs are still experience-oriented but not tradition-oriented. The entire tradition concept is a myth; there is a thread that @21lux started about this.

    ESTJs are very blunt and you always know where we stand. That is sometimes even our weakness. Hillary has a secretive quality to her that screams not an ESTJ. XNTJ seems like a better possibility.
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  4. #84
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    Yikes. I guess this says something to how popular she is. I do share some of the concerns about integrity.


    That is one quite pissed off girl.


    As none American it is hard for me to be certain about Hillary but I am not sure that an introvert would be so socially pushy as she is. Plus she strikes me much more as a reformer (Ni) than linar down to the Earth person (Si). Also Se,Ne and Fe doms often make the sterotypical "social clowns" while Te doms often don't fit too nicely into that due to how low their feeling function is and how serious their main function is. Creating the emotinally detched person that will say what the others are thinking but they are unconfortable to say this publicly, making the blunt person look awkward. Therefore since there is the concensus that she is TJ person that when summed with everthing else suggests ENTJ above any other option. Just her belief and raw determination that she deserves presidency "scream" ENTJ to me.

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    Yikes. I guess this says something to how popular she is. I do share some of the concerns about integrity.

    She's bad at convincing people of stuff. 80% personal attacks 20% material that's relevant. Doesn't even talk about the material but leaves us to go look it up. Why would I look up references to material from someone who is so clearly biased, I bet a fraction of those are just conspiracy theories. Meh 2/10 I'm not impressed nor convinced.
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  6. #86
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    entj
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  7. #87
    Musician Forever's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    Yikes. I guess this says something to how popular she is. I do share some of the concerns about integrity.

    Part Poetry, Part Public Service Announcement, Part Sermon. Lol.

  8. #88
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ursa View Post

    ESTJs are very blunt and you always know where we stand. That is sometimes even our weakness. Hillary has a secretive quality to her that screams not an ESTJ. XNTJ seems like a better possibility.
    The secretive quality is something I have not mentioned but has always been part of my reasoning for her being an intj. Again I have often thought ESTJ over the years as well but I feel certain she is not an ENTJ or ISTJ.

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  9. #89

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    I say INTJ who has very strong Te and puts it out there.

  10. #90
    deplorable basketcase Tellenbach's Avatar
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    I know a couple of ESTJs; they absolutely thrive and sparkle in the company of people. Hillary's the opposite; she hates the public. She doesn't enjoy being in crowds; she doesn't like to shake hands. She hates the process of campaigning. I think it's far more likely that she's an introvert.
    Senator Rand Paul is alive because of modern medicine and because his attacker punches like a girl.
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