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  1. #11
    Whisky Old & Women Young Speed Gavroche's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JocktheMotie View Post
    Good calls on all of the these. The ones I recognize seem spot on, and when playing KOTOR I found myself identifying so much with Revan it was obscene.
    Yes, Darth Revan is a great INTP, largely greater than Yoda.



    I haven't kept up with too much Star Wars fiction aside from Timothy Zahn novels, which are simply superb.
    I hav'nt read the novels, but I've read the comics.

    curious to know what kind of source material you used for some of your typings
    To type the sith from Marka Ragnos to Ulic Qel-Droma, I've read the comics Tales of the Jedi, to type the sith from Darth Revan, to Darth Nihilus, I've play at KOTOR, to type the sith from Lord Kaan to Darth Zanah, I've read the novels Darth Bane: Path Of Destruction and The Rule Of Two and the comic Jedi vs Sith, to type from Darth Sidious to Darth Vader, I've watch the 6 films, read some novels too type Darth Caedus, and read the comics Star Wars: Legacy to type Darth Krayt. For the others, I did'nt know them until to watch that video, but I've read the articles about them on wookieepedia. I've use their phisical apparence to type them to. The Dark Underlord, Darth Desolous and Darth Plagueis looks very INTJ, Darth Rivan Darth Cognus, Darth Millenial and Darth Vectivus, looks very INFJ. I find INFJ appropriate for Cognus, Millenial and Vectivus, because they were sith during the period of Rule of Two wich needs to learn and teach the Dark Side's mysteries, devoted to a long-term wise and a cause.

    Typing fictional characters is more about fun and entertainment than perfect accuracy.
    Yes.

    Ragnos has to be ENTJ as he helped create sith tradition where as SJs seem to follow tradition rather than make it.
    Marka Ragnos hav'nt create theses traditions at all, they're here lagely before him so far, he've follow it, an discourage the Naga Sadow's attempts of innovations.

    Reven strrikes me more as ENTP/INTJ depending on when. When training his methods seem ENTP but when trying to take over the republic he seems INTJ.
    He's between the both: INTP

    Malak strikes me as ESTP. He is an extremely talented warrior especially with a lightsaber and is very cocky and arrogant and vain. No where near as insightful as an ENTJ either too brash.
    Not as present oriented and physically involved to be ESTP, I think, ENTJ seems more accurate, the mirror of Revan, not his semi-dual.

    I mean, if i want to be a cocky scary bastard with superpower I don't think most people would guess that I'm really an entp screwing with their heads.
    It's the goal of Naga Sadow in Tales of the Jedi, but his arguments for are more "we need innovations rather keep stuck by traditions and inactivity".

    I was hoping for an INFP sith too. They basically had everything else besides ENFP and ESFP and ISFP. Wait... basically no Fi doms. >_>
    There's no FP sith. Maybe because they're too concerned with ethic to be one, sith despising ethics. I think FPs fall to the Dark Side when their values system is unable to satisfy their goals. Anakin is an ENFP before to be Vader, A'Sharad Hett was ISFP before become Darth Krayt, Ulic Qel-Droma was maybe ESFP and Luke looks some sort of ESTJ when he approachs of the Dark Side.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speed Gavroche View Post
    Yes, Darth Revan is a great INTP, largely greater than Yoda.

    There's no FP sith. Maybe because they're too concerned with ethic to be one, sith despising ethics. I think FPs fall to the Dark Side when their values system is unable to satisfy their goals. Anakin is an ENFP before to be Vader, A'Sharad Hett was ISFP before become Darth Krayt, Ulic Qel-Droma was maybe ESFP and Luke looks some sort of ESTJ when he approachs of the Dark Side.
    Darth Revan was the greatest of all the Sith Lords, perhaps only behind INTJ Darth Plagueis, so having him on our side as INTP is cool. It is also funny how the Dark Side turns people into their opposite type!

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  4. #14
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    I do believe there are "FP" and "Fi-dom" Sith. Fi is about values and personal ethics, neither of which are not immune to becoming distorted. A sith can desire power for the sake of more than just impersonal reasons, they could actually rationalise it as the ethical thing e.g. stability through total control or see the acquisition of power, loyalty and knowledge as in line with their internal values. I think its hard to notice because many seem to hide behind a tough front, spouting out (unhealthy) Te style threats. I have also come to the conclusion that its individualism which actually burns at the heart of the Sith more than anything else. If my conclusion is correct then I think there are many NPs in their ranks, NFPs included.

    The TC made a good attempt at typing, though I will disagree with a few:

    Darth Revan: INTJ
    Darth Malak: ESFP
    Darth Traya: INFJ
    Darth Sion: ISTP
    Darth Nihilus: INTJ
    Darth Plagueis: ENTJ (uncertain on E/I)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Standuble View Post
    Darth Revan: INTJ
    Darth Nihilus: INTJ
    Could you eleborate as I can see why they would look J since they are so powerful and controlling though they both seem less strategic and more removed from leadership than real INTJs like Darth Sidious or the Dark Underlord but anyway I would like a well reasoned explanation for those typings if you want to provide it. I think they are INTP but idk.
    Attachment 8168

  6. #16
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    I'll give it a try. I base my typing on the two KOTOR games so you may have insights from the comics or SW:TOR which I wouldn't have.

    Revan (I type from his pre-Jedi capture) - He seemed to fight the entire Mandalorian Wars IMO as a huge strategy game. He seemed to know exactly what he was doing based on the descriptions given in the game. According to the second game, he 1) Began to despise weakness and indecisiveness and 2) found out about the Sith Empire during the war. It also suggested that Revan never truly fell to the dark side which IMO suggested he was aware of what he didn't know e.g. that he could be sure his strategy would survive falling to the dark side. Darth Traya implied that the whole Mandalorian Wars became a war of conversion to gain the loyalty of the Jedi and to turn them to the dark side in an effort to defeat Vitiate's Sith empire. The battle of Malachor V was orchestrated by Revan to ensure the destruction of those who were not sufficiently loyal. The whole thing struck me as a long sequence of planning leading into the second stage. It all struck me as a Ni-Te campaign.

    In the Jedi Civil War he took great strides to ensure the galaxy remained politically, economically and militarily stable. Using HK-47 and assassins he killed those who could weaken authority or spread corruption which would compromise the Republic against Vitiate's Sith Empire when it eventually invaded. He also missed a chance for spontaneous action. Rather than wage direct war with Vitiate using the Star Forge fleet (it would destroy Vitiate before Revan's empire is torn apart by its effects) he seems to use it as part as an earlier created strategy - to ensure the capitulation of the Republic so he can quickly rebuild key empires which become dynamic under empire control. Would an INTP give up such a chance for direct action when the Ne suggests there is a possibility the original strategy would not work?

    Some other parts -

    - Revan did not strike me as much as an intellectual. Insightful and talented yes but not much of an intellectual. The first game suggests he hungered for power as much as knowledge and only sought out the Star Maps for the location data contained inside rather than the information as an end in itself.
    - Yuthura declared him as "very powerful and very charismatic." The latter of which I have heard applied to INTJs much more than INTPs.
    - Does he ever actually use Si at any point? Did he consider the democratic legacy of the Republic when he sought to turn it into a dictatorship?

    Darth Nihilus - There is little said about him in KOTOR 2, it's mostly about the power he possesses. But here goes:

    - He seems to desire power more than anything else. His ship (the Ravager) is clearly aimed towards expediency, efficiency and crew loyalty. It's practically falling apart and has little in the way of aesthetics. He does not see it as really that necessary to repair it or improve it when his own power can easily keep it intact. His crew have also been brainwashed so severely they are the archetypal zombified slave (if there is such a thing.) The meditation chamber inside is used presumably for little else than what Visas uses it for: communion with the dead and/or the Force.
    - He seems attached to Visas in a manner I found a little odd. Whilst she is technically his apprentice he does not seem to use her for the task or the traditional role. IMO he found ways for her to be useful. He is also apparently angry at her betrayal when she confronts him at the end of the game. To me it seemed to be irrational Fi, he had a value of her outside of an employer/employee relationship because she survived his attack on Katarr.
    - It does not say whether Nihilus knows he will eventually consume the entire Force and upon doing so starve to death. IMO an INTP would realise the lack of logic about continuing to feed - he is a total slave of the dark side and continuing to exist will cause him to become the instrument of his own destruction. An INTP would advocate possessing lesser power if it were more logical.
    - Tobin advises if you speak to him on the Ravager that Nihilus "sees only stars and planets, to him we are only grains of sand on the beach" (in regards to the lack of effort he has used in attempting to stop their invasion) which to me echoed the INTJs relationship with inferior-Se. Nihilus is so entrenched in the force he cannot see what is tangibly right in front of him until it is directly in his face and a threat. I wouldn't be surprised if this "entrenchment" is fuelled by dominant Ni.

    Those are my points. Feel free to dissect and provide counter-arguments as you see fit.

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    http://www.killermovies.com/forums/a...-and-sith.html
    Above is a very interesting forum I found about the Dark Lords of the Sith and their arguments of who the most powerful ones ever were. In my opinion the most powerful Sith Lord ever is Darth Revan from KotOR.
    Attachment 8207
    http://dorkside.forumwise.com/dorkside-thread254.html
    Picture source above:

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    @Standuble

    I'll give it a try. I base my typing on the two KOTOR games so you may have insights from the comics or SW:TOR which I wouldn't have.
    That's good that you recognize that you may be lacking evidence in your conclusions and because you realize this your opinions should contain more validity since they are sceptically analyzed.

    Revan (I type from his pre-Jedi capture) - He seemed to fight the entire Mandalorian Wars IMO as a huge strategy game. He seemed to know exactly what he was doing based on the descriptions given in the game. According to the second game, he 1) Began to despise weakness and indecisiveness and 2) found out about the Sith Empire during the war. It also suggested that Revan never truly fell to the dark side which IMO suggested he was aware of what he didn't know e.g. that he could be sure his strategy would survive falling to the dark side. Darth Traya implied that the whole Mandalorian Wars became a war of conversion to gain the loyalty of the Jedi and to turn them to the dark side in an effort to defeat Vitiate's Sith empire. The battle of Malachor V was orchestrated by Revan to ensure the destruction of those who were not sufficiently loyal. The whole thing struck me as a long sequence of planning leading into the second stage. It all struck me as a Ni-Te campaign.
    INTJs are known for strategy and since Revan was so good at it that adds points to INTJ though that's not to say that INTPs couldn't do the same though maybe not quite as naturally. Knowing exactly what he was doing also seems like an INTJ trait since he was so self assured which is very counter to the questioning nature of INTPs so that's 2 points for INTJ. Him not valuing weakness and indeciveness seems applicable to any T type though the deciveness thing seems more TJ and the weakness thing could be more TP so no points for either. It is also revealed in SWTOR that Revan's mind was dominated by the will of the Sith Emperor forcing him to become a slave to the dark side and attack the republic for the Emperor though later on Revan may have truly embraced the dark side on his own will in order to prevent the greater evil from emerging that was the Emperor and his plan of total annihilation like you were saying but that is not type related so again no points for either. However when this is all tied in to the Malachor scheme you mentioned to eliminate those who weren't loyal it does begin to seem like a long term strategy game so now 3 points for INTJ.

    In the Jedi Civil War he took great strides to ensure the galaxy remained politically, economically and militarily stable. Using HK-47 and assassins he killed those who could weaken authority or spread corruption which would compromise the Republic against Vitiate's Sith Empire when it eventually invaded. He also missed a chance for spontaneous action. Rather than wage direct war with Vitiate using the Star Forge fleet (it would destroy Vitiate before Revan's empire is torn apart by its effects) he seems to use it as part as an earlier created strategy - to ensure the capitulation of the Republic so he can quickly rebuild key empires which become dynamic under empire control. Would an INTP give up such a chance for direct action when the Ne suggests there is a possibility the original strategy would not work?
    Revan's long term goal of waging war and destroying the unloyal from within to preserve peace may on the surface look like an NiTe strategy though when you look at his motives it was to ensure that harmony would ultimately reign rather than him dominating everything which seems more Fe at the core so now 1 point for INTP. As far as Revan being unable to adapt and forsee the long term effects of one strategy over an alternative one it may seem to lack Ne at first glance though a real INTJ Mastermind not only has a Plan A but a Plan B, C, D and so forth depending on circumstance since they are so visionary and open minded, more so than any other type so again when we dig deeper Revan now gets 2 points for INTP.

    Some other parts -
    Are you still reading this post? If so I would like to congragulate you.

    - Revan did not strike me as much as an intellectual. Insightful and talented yes but not much of an intellectual. The first game suggests he hungered for power as much as knowledge and only sought out the Star Maps for the location data contained inside rather than the information as an end in itself.
    - Yuthura declared him as "very powerful and very charismatic." The latter of which I have heard applied to INTJs much more than INTPs.
    - Does he ever actually use Si at any point? Did he consider the democratic legacy of the Republic when he sought to turn it into a dictatorship?
    Revan's insatiable hunger for knowledge seems very TiNe since INTPs are life long learners, the Ti being the categorizer of this information and the Ne using the data to implicate in a universal system the branches of each and every idea and all of their interconnections between each Ti generated axiom. Yes like you say Revan does ultimately seek a practical application for this knowledge and though he seeks to use it his prime motive was to go beyond the Jedi code and all of their limiting traditions to learn the true nature of the Force but nonetheless he not only desires knowledge but he desires to use knowledge so no points for either. Revan's charismatic personality and power are in my opinion not type dependent but rather capable of being developed by anyone able and willing to do so though I will admit that as a whole the most charismatic type for females seems to be ENFJ and for males ENTP and we all know of course that canonically Revan was not a girl thank goodness so since INTP is closer to ENTP than INTJ I would say another point for INTP but since you disagree in your opinion about which type is more charismatic I will just say no points for either. Finally Revan's dream was a Republic of peace and prosperity even if he had to use extreme measures such as turning to the dark side and waging war to get there so his value both for preserving the Republic and creating peace seems more SiFe and to further augment my point that Revan was not looking to make himself a dictator it was said that Malak simply crushed all resistance in his path whereas Revan deliberately spared key Republic worlds to facilitate the process of rebuilding the Republic anew so now 3 points for INTP.

    Well at least based on my analysis we appear to be at a standstill between INTP and INTJ for Revan's type since for each type got 3 points of evidence in their favor so since you think Revan is INTJ and I at least think Revan is INTx not to mention that the OP also thinks Revan is INTP then the only logical conclusion we can make thus far is that Revan is INTx.

    Now Darth Nihilus I don't know enough about to empirically prove his type so I will let you off easy and concede that he was indeed INTJ though his detached demeanor and complete emotional emptiness do seem more Ti since he was after all a metaphorical black hole consuming all in his presence into an inescapble void of death, darkness, and destruction.

    Well if you read all of this I appreciate that and just like I did feel free to refute my observations and theories and their respective types. May the Force be with us all.

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    Behold the 2 greatest and most powerful of all the Sith Lords and these epic testaments to their almighty greatness! All hail Darth Revan and Darth Nihilus, the true Dark Lords of the Sith!


    Attachment 8236

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    Luke and Darth Vader (who happens to be Mama Luigi) have a truly epic battle which human eyes have never before seen.

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