songwriters/musicians

[Killjoy]

I'm pretty sure Coltrane was INFJ; Not sure how he could be typed as an ISFP.

Also, I've read Victor Bockris' Transformer and Lou Reed came across as either an INTJ or ENTJ. He was too calculated, self assured and controlling for me to think INTP.

Fom the interviews I've seen (and read), the man has not even a basic grasp of extraverted feeling, i.e. He's a total dick, and proud of it.

 

[the state i am in]

all your adjectives for lou reed seem to fit intp more than intj. i could maybe see entj, but it seems more of a struggle. he's a 5w4 too, i'm guessing? he still wrote songs like i'll be your mirror, which seems out-of-touch with entj.

i read the book "uptight" and it was a velvet underground book. do you agree that john cale is probably an infj?

coltrane as infj, his personality does seem like he could easily be infj, 4w5, but his music seems unfathomable for me as infj music. but i definitely need to give this some serious thought.

 

[brainheart]

I'm not getting this jazz musicians as XNXXs bit. ISTP is supposed to be jazz central, it would seem. According to Lenore Thomson, ISTP musicians have a need to "recognize the underlying structure of music, the way it takes shape in an unfolding pattern. This kind of perceptual learning ultimately trains the ability to improvise. Once ISTP musicians grasp the internal structure of a song, they're free to experiment with its possibilities..."

Jazz is improvisation. But I'm also exceedingly tired of this whole typing of most musicians as Ns, as you may know. What so many see as intuiting is often in actuality a good ear, which has to do with keen observation, not the connection of potential possibilities. Not only that, creativity is often expressed by the tertiary function, which in ISXPs is Ni. So I can see how Intuiting-types would pick up on the intuitive aspect of ISXP creations and declare them as N-types.

I'm not saying that there aren't any XNXX musicians. I'm saying that I don't believe they are the vast majority as you all seem to think.

 

[the state i am in]

what you say is very possible. do you have any typings that you feel pretty confident about?

also, for starters, we do have miles listed as a probable isfp. right now the extent of our guesses, it seems to me, have been miles isfp, coltrane infj, bird infp, and louis armstrong as esfp. that's not exactly an extensive list. the other jazz typings i have seen are jaco pastorious as entp and i'd guess john mclaughlin is an infj.

also, the largest songwriting/musician section in my overall list IS isfp. i just don't happen to like what they produce very much, as a whole. it's not surprising that N folks like N musicians and S folk like a lot of S musicians. there's obviously crossover, but we do look for different things in terms of how we perceive musical information and creativity.

 

[brainheart]

Well, I don't know, because many of those who you type as N musicians are my favorite musicians, Bob Dylan and a few others aside. (I count around 45 N-primarily INFP, INTP, and INTJ- that I like to 15 SP-primarily ISFP and the one ISTP- according to your categorizations.)

I don't want to get into typing people I don't know. I'm just making observations on an overall tendency I see in the typing others do and I have a hard time believing a lot of it. (For example, J Mascis as an INFP? Are you freaking kidding me? Talk about someone who gets technical with his guitar!)

 

[brainheart]

Ryan Adams...don't think he's a sensor. If you listen to "The Shadowlands"...I don't know, there's just so much depth in some of his music..."Friends" even, conveys a wealth of feeling that wouldn't be so prevalent in an SF type personality. *shrug* I think he's an NF of some sort.

I know this is old but...

where on earth does this idea come from that an SF can't have depth or a 'wealth of feeling'?

A lot of us express our emotions via our art forms, irrespective of type; often it's the only way we know how to let it out, especially if we are introverts.

 

[lost verses]

^I'm not saying SF's lack feeling and emotion, of course not. But I absolutely think they do not have as much depth as the NF. That's unquestionable, imo.

 

[brainheart]

hmm. well, then I guess according to your definition I must be an NF. Unless an NF is a black hole while I am merely a bottomless well.


EDIT: thought I was an ISFP at the time.

 

[lost verses]

Don't shoot the messenger, lol.

 

[brainheart]

Did you seriously just write that? Seriously?

You don't know me at all, and you have the presumption to write that based on what theorists peg to be my personality type?

Unbelievable. Where's your INFP desire for harmony, eh?

 

[BlueinGreen]

I've pretty much heard the exact opposite. Linda McCartney dated him or was friends with him (I forget which) before the Doors made the big time, (this was before Linda met Paul), and she described him as a sweet, quiet, guy. Not at all like the Lizard King persona.

His younger brother, high school and college classmates, bandmates, and several other girlfriends would disagree with her. Morrison is kind of an anomaly though, and the amount of weed/booze/coke/lsd in his system makes it hard to say for sure. He could definitely get pretty depressed and withdrawn from time to time too.

Why do you think Jimmy Page is an S as opposed to an N?

I think you could make a case for intp, but he just seems to have that characteristic artisan temperament going on. Don't forget that he was a studio musician for quite a while before Zeppelin because of his technical proficiency and understanding of the more mechanical side of music. The vast majority of session musicians are S's.

^I'm not saying SF's lack feeling and emotion, of course not. But I absolutely think they do not have as much depth as the NF. That's unquestionable, imo.

In what regard? Because it sounds like you're saying that you as an N have access to a level of feeling that an S can't experience, and I don't think it works quite like that. N's may experience different aspects of feeling, but it's not like we nf's have achieved this "feeling nirvana" at the pinnacle of human emotional experience.

 

[lost verses]

^I think that the intution function is able to apply a certain depth to the feeling where primarily surface information gathering can't access. I'm not saying it's good or bad or whatever, it's just how it is.

Did you seriously just write that? Seriously?

You don't know me at all, and you have the presumption to write that based on what theorists peg to be my personality type?

Unbelievable. Where's your INFP desire for harmony, eh?

Dude, calm down. I was talking about NFs and SFs. You decided to bring yourself into the equation all on your own. You're not even a declared SF so why should you be so damn offended?

LOL, I don't waste time trying to apply harmony to things that I know are beyond my control.

 

[onemoretime]

Based on his humor and lyrics, I'd guess Woody Guthrie is an NF, maybe ENFP.

Yep.

 

[brainheart]

^I think that the intution function is able to apply a certain depth to the feeling where primarily surface information gathering can't access. I'm not saying it's good or bad or whatever, it's just how it is.

Dude, calm down. I was talking about NFs and SFs. You decided to bring yourself into the equation all on your own. You're not even a declared SF so why should you be so damn offended?

LOL, I don't waste time trying to apply harmony to things that I know are beyond my control.

Dude, not offended, just a bit incredulous because you seemed so quick to apply your judgment on a large group of people. I'm not a declared anything because I can see myself in all of the IXXPs, in all honesty, although I definitely lean toward the F. I find fault in the personality typing all over the place.

And as far as depth of feeling goes, I don't think the perceiving function is a make-or-break characteristic. Feeling should come primarily from the hmm, feeling function, don't you think? And if you're talking about I/ENFPs and I/ESFPs (which I think you are; I don't know how E/INFJs fit into this) that would be introverted feeling. Introverted feeling seems pretty deep to me. Sure, maybe the secondary function affects how one interprets or expresses that depth, but I think that depth is still there.

Not to mention... it's not like we only use two functions. The Ni tags directly behind the Se in an ISFP, and the Si directly behind the Ne in an INFP,etc, etc. Perhaps that tertiary function is there for a reason?

Tell you what, I'll change my personality type to how I really feel. That help?

P.S. by using introverted feeling as an example, I am not implying in any way that others lack depth of feeling. Merely an example...

And I feel the need to speak up for the underdog, in this case, the SFs you decry.

 

[lost verses]

Again, not sure why you're acting like this is some sort of mission for the downtrodden. As an NF, I do not claim to say that NFs are better at science type things such as forensics. I'm pretty confident that NT's are better at that, lol. Everyone has their thing.

And as far as this:

just a bit incredulous because you seemed so quick to apply your judgment on a large group of people.

It's not quick. I've been studying this stuff and people for awhile.

 

[NewEra]

Kanye West - ENFP
T.I. - ISTJ

 

[Charmed Justice]

Kanye West - ENFP
T.I. - ISTJ

No way! Why do we have to get Kanye?

 

[lost verses]

Kanye an intuit? LOL.

 

[onemoretime]

No way! Why do we have to get Kanye?

You're telling me an ENFP wouldn't jump up on stage in the middle of an awards show to defend a close friend?

 

[lost verses]

It wasn't to protect Jay Z, it was to get attention. As always.