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  1. #11
    Per Ardua Metamorphosis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Swartzeneggar: ESFP (compare to Jesse Ventura, rampant ESTP)
    Interesting. I always thought of him as an ENTJ (mostly because of interviews and Pumping Iron), but I can see that.
    "You will always be fond of me. I represent to you all the sins you never had the courage to commit."

    Reason is, and ought only to be the slave of the passions, and can never pretend to any other office
    than to serve and obey them. - David Hume

  2. #12
    Aspie Idealist TaylorS's Avatar
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    Bush Jr.: ISFJ

    Dick Cheney: INTJ (Nixon clone)

    Hillary Clinton: ENTJ

    Bill Clinton: ESFP (duh)

    Al Gore: INTJ

    John Kerry: IxFP? ( I swear I see Fi in him)

    Barack Obama: very, very ENTP

    John Edwards: ENFP

    Arnold Schwarzenegger: ESxP

    Jessie Ventura: Gotta be ESTP

    John McCain: ESTJ

    Rudy Guliani: ExTJ

    Bush Sr.: ISTJ (had a problem with the "vision thing")

    Ronald Reagan: ESTP (used to be a salesman for GE, 'nuff said)

    Jimmy Carter: INFP

    Gerry Ford: IxTP

    Richard Nixon: INTJ

    LBJ: ISTP

    JFK: ESTP

    Dwight Eisenhower: INTJ

    Harry Truman: ISTJ

    Franklin Roosevelt: ESTP

    Herbert Hoover: INTJ

    Woodrow Wilson: INTJ

    Theodore Roosevelt: ESTP
    Autistic INFP


  3. #13
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    Cheney should be an INTJ, considering his approach to politics seems to mirror Nixon, also an INTJ.

    I would guess that Bush is an xSTx, with a preference towards ISTJ. The buddy buddy system that is currently prevalent, the decider and the things will work out all point towards SJ traits.

    I think the rest of the candidates with 3-4 exceptions are forms of TJs. The exceptions would be those like Ron and Mitt, which I type as a some form of INTx and F.
    Cheney is one of the chaps. Dick was a lonely wolf.

  4. #14
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    I see Fi in John Kerry, as well. But Ne is even more obvious in him -- just observe the way he speaks. His speech has very little structure. He jumps to points that are seemingly unrelated, making him reasonably hard to follow -- classic N trait right there.

    Sensors tend to be better at getting from Point A to Point B with very little difficulty -- that's probably why Bush won a second term.

    I doubt that Dubya is an ESTP. ESTPs are more able to stick up for themselves. George, Jr. is definitely Si dominant according to Jung -- he certainly exhibits a "doormat" mentality that Jung corresponded to his Introverted Sensation type.

  5. #15
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    George Bush: ESTP
    [Note: For you SJ'ers out there, Bush is married to an SJ, close friends with SJs, and both of his parents and his brother is an SJ. He is steeped in the conservative Christian culture. IMO that's why he often shows aspects of SJ behavior. But it's not his natural inclination. He's by nature an easy-going, schmoozing, seat-of-your-pants gunslinger.]
    I've seen a couple of pics of Bush that makes me think he's an ESTP, they just strike me as very ESTP poses.



    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
    Social Penetration Theory 1
    Social Penetration Theory 2
    Social Penetration Theory 3

  6. #16
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    I've seen a couple of pics of Bush that makes me think he's an ESTP, they just strike me as very ESTP poses.
    Honestly, I think he's been smothered throughout his life by his parents/cultural upbringing and also battling his own feelings of ineptness.

    I know someone else who I think is ESTP of the same generation, but he's simply steeped in conservatism. When people are brought up in certain environments with no other options, they become engrained. I even see it with my ESFP son; he has brought up in the Christian church and accepts many things as truth without even challenging it, because it's what he was taught, and it forms the foundation of the rest of his beliefs. And he gets dogmatic / is completely certain of it; it's the Gospel Truth. It's like programming.

    If you get Bush away from people and in his own environment (something NOT formal), I guarantee he will loosen up and show more ESTP behavior. It's only when he gets around others in the polito-religious spheres and feels he has to behave a certain way that he suddenly feels he has no control and has to become rigid and dogmatic. (Which I blame his parents for. Barbara is well-known for being sweet but domineering.)

    Otherwise he'd be hollering and hooting all over the place, unlike the typical ISFJ male. He was jammed in a mold as a child and young adult, and this is what we have to show for it -- the dangers of the Pygmalion project (?).
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  7. #17
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Otherwise he'd be hollering and hooting all over the place, unlike the typical ISFJ male. He was jammed in a mold as a child and young adult, and this is what we have to show for it -- the dangers of the Pygmalion project (?).
    Maybe, I don't know. I think, however, he should of spent more of his pygmalion time loving statues.

    In any case, I'd accept that as a reason, it would fit his easily manipulated tendencies and his need to be right/etc. I'm rather shuddering at this because action at a distance can have incredibly negative consequences. It decreases the predictability of his actions by a huge margin.

  8. #18
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    First I take my keyboard, and press "P," next I press "o," and then enter "l," followed by "i," pressing "t" next, then pressing "i" again, then entering "c," followed by striking "i," inputting "a," pressing "n," and finally hitting "s."

    Did I really have to spell it out for you?

    I'll try this, though I'm not very good at it:

    George W. Bush: ISFP

    Hilary Clinton: ISTJ

    Richard Cheney: ExTJ

    Laura Bush: ISFJ

  9. #19
    Senior Member Blackwater's Avatar
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    Bill Clinton (ENFP)
    While many share the view that Bill Clinton is an ENFP some people, including Keirsey, see him as an ESFP. There is a minor difference between Keirsey's Temperaments and the classic MBTI types which can adequately explain why this schism originated in the first place. In advocating Clinton as an ENFP rather than an ESFP, I would point to his tendency to propose and pursue radically different solutions to problems being discussed just as everybody felt that they were about to reach a political consensus. That being said, both the ENFP and the ESFP are insanely charming and tend behave similarly in the superficial situations which we have seen Clinton partake in on TV.
    best collection of philosopher typings online

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  10. #20
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    I think GWB's *not* being ISFJ can be clarified further by examining his political platforms:

    - Every time Bush has been elected to office (whether as the Texas governor or US President), he's pushed [against a lot of pressure] for squandering the surplus budget on tax cuts. That in itself is very rare for an ISFJ, who are often stereotyped as the frugal pennypincher. Such behavior is irresponsible for an ISFJ. (It is typical, however, for SP types who maximize action/pleasure and don't place as much stock in saving for "rainy days"; they let the future take care of itself.)

    - Bush's only real platform in his presidency has been the Iraq War and "searching out the terrorists." ISFJ's would generally NOT persist on sending young Americans overseas to slowly be whittled away for six long years and still refuse to bring people home, regardless of the "national" security. Why? Because they are personal in nature; the plight of the mothers of sons dying in the war would be very very palpable to them and unless they believed the threat was immediate (which it doesn't seem to be), they would eventually not be able to deal with the thought of so many people dying for seemingly needless reasons. Again, ISFJs are very conservative (not "Republican conservative"), just conservative to a fault in the risks they are willing to take. They would be viewing war damages in personal terms rather than large global missions and be much more conservative in their approach. (Again, Bush's behavior is typical SP "Let's do something and sit here on our hands / Throw energy at the problem and we will win!" mentality. He *hates* to sit still, he always has to be *doing* something.)

    - Bush's "No Child Left Behind" agenda is not very ISFJ either. It really ignores the plight on individual children and focuses merely on penalizing schools. While ISFJs would see schools as responsible, again the most important thing is the happiness/distress of the individual; poor disadvantaged kids suffering under the system really rings hard on ISFJs' hearts. (It's why Mother Theresa spent her lifeblood on the streets of Calcutta, rather than just sending money or being a politician. It has to be PERSONAL.)

    - Bush allowed his political campaign to stoop to nefarious levels during the 2000 primaries and elsewhere. For him, in a political fight, anything goes. (This is more SP.) ISFJ's usually have more integrity; their issues are with another person's integrity, rather than seeking to undermine others. ESFJ might be more apt to promote attacks on others (re: Karen Hughes, one of Bush's campaign advisors at that time). But ISFJ is usually far more soft-spoken and would rather die than stoop to such unpleasantness and purposefully muckraking people in the press.

    (Carter was seemingly this way. He refused, as far as I can recall, to be so disparaging just in order to win political battles.)

    GWB might seem personable on a folksy level -- connecting with "country/religious folk," but not really where it matters. He's more the person you'd go out with on a Saturday night to raise cain, and not the man you'd expect to tend the farm while you went out to party.

    --

    Also, I feel I must say something about his abysmal early half of his life.

    He was the eldest child of 4-5 (?), who constantly was an underachiever and who did the bare minimum to get by. His grades were average at best, and usually in the low end. He scraped by in the military, joining the unit must likely to avoid real duty, and didn't apparently show up as much as he could get away with not showing up. He actively partied and drank until a religious conversion later in life, when he hit bottom.

    This doesn't sound very ISFJ either. An ISFJ would typically be ashamed of being so irresponsible and is very much likely to make an actual effort to please parents and meet the standards. They tend to be average (if they are not very smart) up to solid B students (if they work hard), and if they are gifted, they will be A students. But usually not in the bottom unless there's great instability in the home. Again, his behavior earlier in life (before his religious conversion) was much more typical for SP types (especially ESP).
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

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