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  1. #31
    Member IntrovertedThinker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lastrailway View Post
    I will not then insist on the N and T point. But as for the J point: Socrates strong sense of morality, of a set of values which should be taught and commonly accepted, his belief that true is absolute and independent of options, the tactics of dialectic and elenchus, are not likely to refer to a J? He seems a person not flexible in his quest for thuth, not likely to be open to all sort of options.
    And, talking about quest: Christ is often typed as an INFJ. But the way you describe INTPs and their relation with inner purpose and values seems to fit to Christ
    Socrates wasn't at all about deriving and holding values which should be taught and "accepted"; he was about questioning values and that which is commonly accepted.
    And you are ultimately confusing Introverted Judgment (which isn't always flexible and adaptable) with Extraverted Judgment (Fe/Te).
    For Ti types, logical is logical; reason is reason, and you cannot change that. This propensity to accept what reasons dictates does not at all indicate that Socrates was a Judger; it only indicates that he was a Thinker.
    You have it all wrong.

  2. #32
    Member IntrovertedThinker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SolitaryWalker View Post
    And yes, INPs are not flexible at all about their inner principles. They are flexible about external trivialities (they down play the external world quite a bit) and are flexible only to the point where one of their principles is violated.
    Indeed.

  3. #33
    Member IntrovertedThinker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SolitaryWalker View Post
    A P would not try to teach them or try to make them acceptable. A P would only offer/inform. INPs hate to preach. They want for their life to be their teaching.
    IP types question and test things with a rebellious, independent spirit cut off from the rest of society.
    Therefore, it's not that they wish to teach society anything indeed, but that instead, they wish to come to new understandings that will in turn benefit society.
    In Socrates' case, he seemed to desire to fix what he saw as wrong (which is not teaching or wanting others to accept). In general, it is merely to inform indeed.

  4. #34
    Member IntrovertedThinker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SolitaryWalker View Post
    He often would retreat in his inner world for hours often over 10 consecutive hours..completely oblivious to his external environment..(it is difficult for an ENTP to be unaware of the external environment because of the dominant Ne).he also had a great discipline of mind..Could meditate for long periods of time in brutally cold weather...that is a property of Ti..intense dedication to inner purpose..ENTPs could also do this, though less proficiently because Ti is less developed..Socrates was also devoid of problems in regards to being overly scattered and flakey as ENPs tend to be...Certainly ENPs can overcome this by developing Introverted Judgment and learning to focus intensely. Yet for the INPs it comes more naturally..ENPs would struggle with this a lot untill they'd overcome that, yet INTPs would hardly struggle at all..hence such intense concentration and discipline of mind came to Socrates seemingly naturally, whilst for an ENTP this would be more of a learned skill.
    I think this is perhaps your most cogent point. Here's some of Plato's own writing on Socrates' behavior (which seem very INTP).
    It's unlikely that Plato would entirely distort Socrates' true character merely to suit his own purposes (even if it no doubt a possibility and definitely a theory worth some consideration).

    Here's how Plato famous describes Socrates (which surely indicates that he was undoubtedly most likely an INTP):

    “He got some notion into his head, and there he stood on one spot from dawn, thinking, and when it did not come out, he would not give in but still stood pondering. It was already midday, and people noticed it, and wondered, and said to one another that Socrates had been standing thinking about something since dawn…he did stand until it was dawn, and the sun rose; then he offered a prayer to the sun and walked away”.
    When I'm in a state of thinking, strongly pondering over some troublesome or interesting idea or intellectual dilemma, I can easily lose track of my surroundings, which shrink away in light of my obsession with my own thought. For this reason, INTP's are obviously known as absent-minded. [Adam Smith (largely regarded as INTP) is well-known for this sort of behavior.] I'm also known for walking around in circles while I think, as the philosophers are depicted in the Monty Python segment about Philosopher's Football. Thinking in this manner can also consume lots of time, as the rest of the world is completely shut out for the sake of pure concentration.

  5. #35
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    Socrates and Plato were both INTP because they were both the detached philosopher type.

  6. #36
    Senior Member animenagai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RaptorWizard View Post
    Socrates and Plato were both INTP because they were both the detached philosopher type.
    That's not a good reason. I'm doing my masters in philosophy and I tell you, if you called every introverted philosoher an INTP you'll end up with a fuckload of mistypings.
    Chimera of Filth

    A gruesome beast with dripping flesh
    Clings to me as a sick fixture
    My throbbing heart it gnawed apart
    It stalks and hunts me through mirrors

  7. #37
    Whisky Old & Women Young Speed Gavroche's Avatar
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    Plato: INFJ 6w5.
    Socrate: ENTP 8w7.
    EsTP 6w7 Sx/Sp

    Chaotic Neutral

    E=60% S=55% T=70% P=80%

    "I don't believe in guilt, I only believe in living on impulses"

    "Stereotypes about personality and gender turn out to be fairly accurate: ... On the binary Myers-Briggs measure, the thinking-feeling breakdown is about 30/70 for women versus 60/40 for men." ~ Bryan Caplan

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speed Gavroche View Post
    Plato: INFJ 6w5.
    Socrate: ENTP 8w7.
    How can Plato be INFJ if Yoda is INTP? I am not saying I disagree but I wonder how you came to this conclusion. Now Socrates I could see as a definite xNTP, a thinker and speaker.

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