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  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stephano View Post
    Obama: ENTP
    Bush II: ESxP
    Clinton: ENFP
    Bush I: ISFJ
    Carter: IxFP
    Kennedy: ESFP
    Lincoln: INFP
    Washington: ENTP
    I'm sure the ENTPs would love to claim Washington lol but I've heard some very convincing arguments that he's ISTJ. As far as I know, the only ENTP presidents we've had have been Obama, possibly Lincoln (most likely introverted, but a definite xNTP), and Teddy Roosevelt. Most say he's ESTP, but i don't buy it. There are so many things about him that say otherwise. He was always pushing innovation, even when it was unnecessary for a solution. heck, just this quote from his childhood paints him as more NT than SP:

    "[I was] very fond of desultory reading and of natural history, and not excelling in any form of sport. Owing to my asthma I was not able to go to school, and I was nervous and self-conscious, so that as far as I can remember my belief is that I was rather below than above my average playmate in point of leadership; though as I had an imaginative temperament this sometimes made up for my other short-comings. Altogether, while, thanks to my father and mother, I had a very happy childhood I am inclined to look back at it with some wonder that I should have come out of it as well as I have!" -T.R.

    Also, JFK comes off as more ESTP to me. I'd also label GWBush an ESTP, though ESFP is very easy to see as well. definitely not an N.

  2. #122
    Almöhi Stephano's Avatar
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    You're right, I meant Franklin not Washington.
    But look up some Kennedy Quotes. He was a peacemaker and humanist.
    4w3 - 7w6 - 1w9 : The Idealist

  3. #123
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    Just read up on JFK, and I get what you mean. I can see him as an F.

    As for 'Franklin', are you talking Ben Franklin, the founding father, or FDR? Because I can't see FDR being an N for some reason. I can see Teddy as ENTP, but FDR seems more xSTP to me. Most likely E.

  4. #124
    Almöhi Stephano's Avatar
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    Just read up on JFK, and I get what you mean. I can see him as an F.

    As for 'Franklin', are you talking Ben Franklin, the founding father, or FDR? Because I can't see FDR being an N for some reason. I can see Teddy as ENTP, but FDR seems more xSTP to me. Most likely E.
    Last name of course. Franklin was a creative genius, he invented the lightning rod among other.
    As for the Roosevelts, I'd say ESTP for Teddy and ESFP for Franklin.
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  5. #125
    IRL is not real Cimarron's Avatar
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    Right, definitely Ben Franklin was an ENTP, but he was never U.S. President.
    You can't spell "justice" without ISTJ.

  6. #126
    Member DoctorCroupy#9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stephano View Post
    Last name of course. Franklin was a creative genius, he invented the lightning rod among other.
    As for the Roosevelts, I'd say ESTP for Teddy and ESFP for Franklin.

    Totally agree on Ben Franklin (though he wasn't a president). He practically invented(lol) the quick-witted creator ENTP stereotype.

    As for the Roosevelts, I see FDR as ESTP. He seemed to make his decisions based on facts and concrete logic. He was definitely an SP when you look at his thought process and decision making style. Very here/now.

    Teddy, however, has always struck me as an NT. He didn't have that here/now intensity to his policies and ideas. He was often caught up in the future. I know that he seems very SP with his adventurous, rugged interests, but as a child he had asthma and couldn't go to school with the other children. I see his active adult life as him possibly making up for lost time. Besides, ENTPs can be into extreme sports too. If you look at his ideas and policies, he was very much an innovator. As Shudder said earlier in this thread, he would push innovation whether it was necessary for the solution or not. Heck, not to discredit FDR, but it was actually Teddy, under his progressive Bull Moose Party, who first introduced the notion of social security to the USA (though it was called 'social insurance' by him).

    I see Teddy Roosevelt as proof that you don't have to be the wacky inventor science guy to be an ENTP.



    P.S.
    I just realized that my second ever post was actually made on this very thread on page 12, one year ago today. Ahh, memories.. #nostalgicmomentslol

  7. #127
    Almöhi Stephano's Avatar
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    Right, definitely Ben Franklin was an ENTP, but he was never U.S. President.
    Totally agree on Ben Franklin (though he wasn't a president). He practically invented(lol) the quick-witted creator ENTP stereotype.
    Yeah, ok, but still, he was a founding father... and badass
    4w3 - 7w6 - 1w9 : The Idealist

  8. #128
    Senior Member Emotionalogic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sgt. Pepper View Post
    Totally agree on Ben Franklin (though he wasn't a president). He practically invented(lol) the quick-witted creator ENTP stereotype.

    As for the Roosevelts, I see FDR as ESTP. He seemed to make his decisions based on facts and concrete logic. He was definitely an SP when you look at his thought process and decision making style. Very here/now.

    Teddy, however, has always struck me as an NT. He didn't have that here/now intensity to his policies and ideas. He was often caught up in the future. I know that he seems very SP with his adventurous, rugged interests, but as a child he had asthma and couldn't go to school with the other children. I see his active adult life as him possibly making up for lost time. Besides, ENTPs can be into extreme sports too. If you look at his ideas and policies, he was very much an innovator. As Shudder said earlier in this thread, he would push innovation whether it was necessary for the solution or not. Heck, not to discredit FDR, but it was actually Teddy, under his progressive Bull Moose Party, who first introduced the notion of social security to the USA (though it was called 'social insurance' by him).

    I see Teddy Roosevelt as proof that you don't have to be the wacky inventor science guy to be an ENTP.



    P.S.
    I just realized that my second ever post was actually made on this very thread on page 12, one year ago today. Ahh, memories.. #nostalgicmomentslol
    You are right about FDR. You are wrong about Teddy. He too was an ESTP. Se oozed out of him at every turn. If he was intuitive (which I doubt; I see him as the epitome of the intellectual sp) he was ENTJ. He was too determined, too purposeful, too proudly self-disciplined to be an ENTP. I see zero ne in him whatsoever. I could almost see him as sj if he wasn't so clearly se. You don't need to be an intuitive to be an innovator, that's just anti-sensor bias. What's more, his policies weren't even that innovative, from an intellectual perspective. His conservation policies had little to do with a grand vision for the future and a lot to do with him wanting a place to hunt and experience nature, and for others to do so. And the "introduced social security=N" idea directly contradicts your earlier typing of FDR as ESTP. FDR's policies were far more visionary and forward looking than Teddy's, and he was definitely a sensor.

  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emotionalogic View Post
    You are right about FDR. You are wrong about Teddy. He too was an ESTP. Se oozed out of him at every turn. If he was intuitive (which I doubt; I see him as the epitome of the intellectual sp) he was ENTJ. He was too determined, too purposeful, too proudly self-disciplined to be an ENTP. I see zero ne in him whatsoever. I could almost see him as sj if he wasn't so clearly se. You don't need to be an intuitive to be an innovator, that's just anti-sensor bias. What's more, his policies weren't even that innovative, from an intellectual perspective. His conservation policies had little to do with a grand vision for the future and a lot to do with him wanting a place to hunt and experience nature, and for others to do so. And the "introduced social security=N" idea directly contradicts your earlier typing of FDR as ESTP. FDR's policies were far more visionary and forward looking than Teddy's, and he was definitely a sensor.
    ...I don't see how Sgt Pepper saying a man's innovative spirit might indicate he's an N is "anti-sensor bias". If we consider that innovation is by and large considered a trait most related to iNtuitives, how is it anti-sensor to state that TR might be an N based on a largely N trait? i think you're reaching, all due respect.

    In fact, one could say you were being very anti-ENTP by saying "He was too determined, too purposeful, too proudly self-disciplined to be an ENTP." That's far more 'anti-type biased' than anything you imagined him saying against sensors lol.

    And are you sure he didn't have a grand vision for his conservation policies? That section of your argument wasn't very strong. How does one simply know something like that? it certainly seems like it was a 'grand vision', considering the policies had the sort of results a successful 'grand vision' would have.

    also, SgtPepper didn't contradict himself, according to what I read. He never once used 'introducing Social Security' as a reason for typing FDR as an S. In fact, he actually stated the opposite of that by pointing out that social security was an idea FDR lifted from Teddy. My understanding of that statement was that the Sensor FDR actually borrowed the idea from the more innovative TR, thus making TR the more likely N, based on the largely N-trait of innovation, which TR possessed. I think you misread his message, or you were looking for something that wasn't there so hard that you eventually thought you saw it.

  10. #130
    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    Teddy Roosevelt was an ESTP. Pretty sure ESTPs can get asthma.
    [Trump's] rhetoric is not an abuse of power. In the same way that it's also not against the law to do a backflip off of the roof of your house onto your concrete driveway. It's just mind-numbingly stupid and, to say the least, counterproductive. - Bush did 9-11


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