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  1. #11
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the state i am in View Post
    he seems textbook isfj to me
    Yikes, necro threads abound.

    ...But yeah.

    he might have actually done better and won a second term if he was INFJ, he would have realized how things were going and changed things up, but instead he kept doing the same-old and dutifully went down with the ship.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  2. #12
    The Dark Lord The Wailing Specter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    I'm probably an INFJ, and I tend to remember and focus on a lot of details. But those details mostly regard abstract ideas, and I'm not as good at remembering sensory details, unless they stand out significantly or are emotionally charged.
    Same.
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  3. #13

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    There's already a thread devoted to his enneagram but I'll revive this one as I'd like to argue against INFJ as well.

    Carter was known for being a policy wonk who was obsessively devoted to details more than he was noted as being a big vision President. Compare him to Clinton (ENFP?), who liked to use metaphorical language like "build a bridge to the 21st century." If you watch interviews, he's very good at remembering details of events that happened decades ago, but not so much focused on the aura, mood, implication of events that happened. Take for instance his supposed UFO sighting in 1969. If you listen to any interview where it's mentioned, his focus is still on the details and what he saw far more than it is on what it meant, what it could've meant, etc. He just knows he say an unidentified flying object, but he isn't as concerned with all of could-be's of what he saw. All of this suggests a preference for sensation.



    He was also extremely process-oriented, almost more focused on the means than he was the ends. If it functioned well, that was just as important as what the function of any given process or bureau yielded, and some suggest it was even more important to him than end results. I believe this suggests someone with a Judging temperament over a Perceiving temperament. So now we've narrowed him to xSxJ.

    Huge humanitarian, very concerned with the suffering and well-being of others. It visibly moves him, almost as if he feels a bit of others' suffering. Sometimes he can come across as a bit fake in this area, but that could be due to years of being a politician. It could also be due to Fe sometimes appearing less genuine than Fi, even if it isn't necessarily less genuine. So we're at xSFJ now.

    Somewhat reserved and slightly less exuberant than I would expect to see in an ESFJ, so I think ISFJ is a good match. A decent President elected at the wrong time, when people really wanted an ESxP cowboy or an ENFx visionary type to boost national morale.


    Now, INFJs, sure they are perfectly capable of remembering details. Carter was certainly a good diplomat, and that too could suggest NF, but that doesn't exclude other types from being good diplomats. SFJs can have their own unique flair for diplomacy. And I still wouldn't rate his diplomacy as his greatest talent. He was an administrative wonk with a heart, by most accounts of people who worked with him. I have a hard time seeing an INFJ being quite as obsessed with the minutia of every little piece of policy. I think they'd be more likely to have a broader vision and delegate the details of implementation and process to their staff. Jefferson, who was likely either an INTP or an INFJ, is a good contrast to Carter's style. He seemed to get overwhelmed and annoyed by being involved in too many minor details of policy implementation. He'd rather focus on coming up with a grand vision like Manifest Destiny or a big idea like a transcontinental expedition whilst leaving the particulars of implementation to others. Carter did occasionally "preach," for instance the infamous "Confidence of Crisis" speech where he proceeded to lecture and chastise Americans, but I don't see this as being uniquely NF as much as I see it as an unfortunate exhibition of Fe in full assault. It's not compelling evidence for an NFJ, in my opinion, though it is something an NFJ could be capable of doing in the right circumstances. It exudes Fe:



    I really have a difficult time seeing NFP or NFJ for Carter. This could be a classic SFJ-NF mixup, right, @Starry ?

  4. #14
    Undisciplined Starry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anaximander View Post
    There's already a thread devoted to his enneagram but I'll revive this one as I'd like to argue against INFJ as well.

    Carter was known for being a policy wonk who was obsessively devoted to details more than he was noted as being a big vision President. Compare him to Clinton (ENFP?), who liked to use metaphorical language like "build a bridge to the 21st century." If you watch interviews, he's very good at remembering details of events that happened decades ago, but not so much focused on the aura, mood, implication of events that happened. Take for instance his supposed UFO sighting in 1969. If you listen to any interview where it's mentioned, his focus is still on the details and what he saw far more than it is on what it meant, what it could've meant, etc. He just knows he say an unidentified flying object, but he isn't as concerned with all of could-be's of what he saw. All of this suggests a preference for sensation.



    He was also extremely process-oriented, almost more focused on the means than he was the ends. If it functioned well, that was just as important as what the function of any given process or bureau yielded, and some suggest it was even more important to him than end results. I believe this suggests someone with a Judging temperament over a Perceiving temperament. So now we've narrowed him to xSxJ.

    Huge humanitarian, very concerned with the suffering and well-being of others. It visibly moves him, almost as if he feels a bit of others' suffering. Sometimes he can come across as a bit fake in this area, but that could be due to years of being a politician. It could also be due to Fe sometimes appearing less genuine than Fi, even if it isn't necessarily less genuine. So we're at xSFJ now.

    Somewhat reserved and slightly less exuberant than I would expect to see in an ESFJ, so I think ISFJ is a good match. A decent President elected at the wrong time, when people really wanted an ESxP cowboy or an ENFx visionary type to boost national morale.


    Now, INFJs, sure they are perfectly capable of remembering details. Carter was certainly a good diplomat, and that too could suggest NF, but that doesn't exclude other types from being good diplomats. SFJs can have their own unique flair for diplomacy. And I still wouldn't rate his diplomacy as his greatest talent. He was an administrative wonk with a heart, by most accounts of people who worked with him. I have a hard time seeing an INFJ being quite as obsessed with the minutia of every little piece of policy. I think they'd be more likely to have a broader vision and delegate the details of implementation and process to their staff. Jefferson, who was likely either an INTP or an INFJ, is a good contrast to Carter's style. He seemed to get overwhelmed and annoyed by being involved in too many minor details of policy implementation. He'd rather focus on coming up with a grand vision like Manifest Destiny or a big idea like a transcontinental expedition whilst leaving the particulars of implementation to others. Carter did occasionally "preach," for instance the infamous "Confidence of Crisis" speech where he proceeded to lecture and chastise Americans, but I don't see this as being uniquely NF as much as I see it as an unfortunate exhibition of Fe in full assault. It's not compelling evidence for an NFJ, in my opinion, though it is something an NFJ could be capable of doing in the right circumstances. It exudes Fe:



    I really have a difficult time seeing NFP or NFJ for Carter. This could be a classic SFJ-NF mixup, right, @Starry ?

    Dude...this was awesome and a thoroughly enjoyable read. I'm also reminded in these moments that my dad was and perhaps still is a Carter fan although beyond his conservationalist views I'm not sure why. I'm just saying it might not have been his politics...sometimes he just likes someone's manner which may be the case (I might ask him and report back.)

    ISFJ all the way
    Likes asynartetic liked this post

  5. #15
    Undisciplined Starry's Avatar
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    So one of the things my dad appreciated about Jimmy was Billy

  6. #16

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    I do think there was an element of noticeable Ti in that video I linked before. Note how he is telling some hard truths, and it's stuff people weren't necessarily wanting to hear either. You can see this more in xNTPs than you can in xSFJs, but it's still apparent in Carter. Not to say other types aren't honest, but Carter prided himself on being honest with the public, even if it hurt his career as a politician.

  7. #17
    Obliviously Mad Ashtart's Avatar
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    ENTP could be the case, but I'm not sure about an INTP telling hard truths as this type tends to avoid conflicts as well. The fact that he is telling hard truths may not seem INFJ at first glance but if they are for the greater good, I don't know why it wouldn't be associated with INFJ. Anyway, I see him as more of an E type than an I.
    "If the truth shall kill them, let them die"

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