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Thread: John and Kate

  1. #31
    unscannable Tigerlily's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    Kate is an ESTJ if I ever saw one. I want to punch her in the face.
    lets hold her down and shave her head!
    Time is a delicate mistress.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jen View Post
    lets hold her down and shave her head!

  3. #33
    On a mission Usehername's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    OK; I'm starting to watch the ones that remain in the hard drive. My wife deleted a bunch of the ones she said were "the best ones" to see how they interact. In the newer ones, they have changed, because of all the current stuff, she says.

    I saw the one where they were moving into a new house. Kate is obviously In Charge (expressive, directive), they way she ordered the kids never to enter the room and then made the father repeat it. This rules out ESFJ. Attention-seeking is probably something any extravert will do at times. She also does not seem to be driven by any Fe, ruling out both ESFJ and ENFJ.

    It was hard to tell off the bat whether she was driven more by logic or values. My wife says she seems to be motivated by what feels right to her (which would be Fi). But she doesn't seem like any sort of FP type. So it would have to be inferior Fi, driving her ordering of the outside world. So it looks like ESTJ or ENTJ. I asked if she seemed to be driven more by the way things were, or her visions of what she wants to do, and she said the latter. So that suggests ENTJ.

    The husband seemed like IFP, and I would say ISFP because he seems to be very physically oriented in his recreation. Hard to tell whether T or F, from him being so quiet. His seeming so docile with her makes me think F (like what protean asks). Others I see are saying T. If he was ISTP, then he would be part Melancholy (Chart the Course). But then is he really directive? Would probably be hard to tell, being that whatever directivness he posesses would be far overshadowed by her.
    My SFJ mom does stuff like this all the time. Control issues don't mean TJ, they just mean control issues. FPs can have control issues. I really think her control issues are beyond her MBTI type.

    She is motivated by her Fe--note when she's interacting with any acquaintances. And she always makes her kids say please/thank you/they have to hug/kiss someone when they hurt them/etc.

    She's a control freak of an Fe. (Control issues are understandable given 8 kids; doing things like limiting where/how/when kids move to the degree she does is beyond MBTI.)
    *You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body.
    *Faith is the art of holding on to things your reason once accepted, despite your changing moods.
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  4. #34

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    ^ /agree

    She reminds me of my ESFJ mother in many ways.
    "The purpose of life is to be defeated by greater and greater things." - Rainer Maria Rilke

  5. #35
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    Just got through watching the one that aired tonight, where they went to Toys R Us.
    She really does not seem to be an extraverted Feeler. Not only how she is so ordered in making decisions based on logical efficiency (money, etc), but when John criticizes her for yelling at him in front of the whole store, she says something about not noticing people. Fe might seek attention, but I think it would be more mindful of both the husband and others. It would certainly not have a problem of not noticing people. It's whole MO is other people.
    Plus, my wife says that in other episodes, she's always telling the camera people and sometimes even the children to get away from being too close to her. Like she is very protective of her personal space. Everybody may want/need some space, but I don't think Dom. Fe would demand it like that. They are usually the ones who are smothering.
    They are described as being good hosts/esses, but she does not seem like that at all. Totally task-focused, about as much as one can get. T, J tend to task, F, P tend to people or are at least more responsive or agreeable (as in FFM), so TJ is least so, FP most so, and FJ/TP in between. And she is not agreeable at all.

    So that looks like classic dom. Te. Definitely In Charge (directive), not simply Get Things Going. I would think an ESFJ's "control issues" would be different from this. My wife I think would admit to having control issues, and even a few of the behaviors, but overall, she is nowhere near Kate. So if you look at these ESFJ's that are being mentioned, are they still like her when it is looked at in that light?
    And almost all parents will teach their children politeness. Especially is she happens to be SJ. (upholding of learned traditions).

    Now seeing John speak more (and that he was an analyst on his job), he could be T, but again, it is really hard to tell from under her shadow.
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  6. #36
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    la la la
    Eric you've given very reasoned explanations of why she's more likely an ExTJ than an ESFJ.

    But you do notice how people have latched onto the evil ESFJ stereotype and can't shake it regardless of the information you've presented? Like I said, I haven't watched the show just what I've read in celeb ragmags and a few snippets here and there but I'm planning on catching up just to type her myself. People have identified her as Fe-dom. I think this just goes to show how deeply entrenched these MBTI archetypes are, especially negative identifying ones are.
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
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  7. #37
    On a mission Usehername's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    Eric you've given very reasoned explanations of why she's more likely an ExTJ than an ESFJ.

    But you do notice how people have latched onto the evil ESFJ stereotype and can't shake it regardless of the information you've presented? Like I said, I haven't watched the show just what I've read in celeb ragmags and a few snippets here and there but I'm planning on catching up just to type her myself. People have identified her as Fe-dom. I think this just goes to show how deeply entrenched these MBTI archetypes are, especially negative identifying ones are.
    I swear mine is complete personal experience with feeling like my (tested and confirmed) ISFJ mom is her twin sister.

    My mom acts exactly like she does. She doesn't notice her behaviour in the same way that Kate doesn't notice her behaviour. She nags and makes us walk to her every two minutes to complete some minute task instead of getting up to come ask us a question. She is the same kind of clean freak and cupboard organizer and calendar nazi (if we haven't written it on the calendar it doesn't matter how important it is, we're not going). Te is what happens when moms have several kids, that's all.

    Also, I think I like ESFJs more than I like many P types to be honest, if I were to stereotype.
    *You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body.
    *Faith is the art of holding on to things your reason once accepted, despite your changing moods.
    C.S. Lewis

  8. #38
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    Well, of the people saying ESFJ, one of them is an Fe user herself, and it seems based more on behavior comparison (and that raises the question whether these other people are really ESFJ).
    I should also address:
    Quote Originally Posted by Usehername View Post
    Kate is an ESFJ. Srsly, 100% on the F. Note the inferior Ti when she possibly strings you with "logic" for a little bit (possible only because she fudges the data) but when you put her arguments together she fails and it turns out her entire motivation is unhealthy Fe-driven.

    She does everything based off her feelings and then makes up the logic later. Definitely unhealthy ESFJ. Mespeaks from being the kid of someone very similar to Kate.
    But is the thinking really Ti, and the Feeling Fe? (Don't know what you mean by "string you with logic", but what I just saw with the finances looked extraverted).
    I would imagine a dom. Te might appear to base their decisions off of feeling. Fi is what they aspire to, and even though on the border of their consciousness, does influence the Te. When they explain their rationale, it might appear that they have just "made up" the logic. But what's driving her seems to be her own values, not any consideration for others.

    But again; I'll continue to look at her decisions and rationales for things.
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  9. #39
    On a mission Usehername's Avatar
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    The blog where Aunt Jodi speaks:

    Monday, June 30, 2008
    Twisted-Part 1
    The best word I can think of to describe the way Kate rationalizes her behavior and justifies her actions is TWISTED!! Unless you have dealt with someone like this, it's really hard to understand or even imagine that someone could actually "believe" the things they say or try to "sell" to someone else.

    The truth is twisted just enough to satisfy the other person--or so she thinks. She has gotten very good at coming up with "valid" reasons for her choices. To the outside person, what she says sometimes sounds logical, but knowing the rest of the story, some will see that things just aren't adding up.

    One example is the reason she is continuing the show, even though they have admitted that there are adverse affects on the children. She said it is their platform to be able to speak in churches and minister to others. Really? I guess that might sound like a valid reason to some. But when you put the whole story together, I find that hard to believe.

    The churches pay for all of their travel expenses. Some also give them a flat fee to come speak, and of course, take up the love offering too. Other churches don't pay a fee, and they only get the love offering and an all expense paid "vacation" without their kids. She has also gotten a taste of how much money they can make if they speak at events where they can sell tickets. It will be very interesting to see how long it will take for the majority of the speaking engagements to require a fee or tickets.

    They have already cancelled some of the churches, and I've heard that they are looking into speaking at "secular" venues because they can make "3 times" the money if they sell tickets, as compared to just receiving a love offering. I read an account from someone who saw them when they were in the Detroit area recently. It sounded more like a question and answer session, but I guess that's because they weren't at a church. I'm not sure how answering questions really justifies leaving your children for the weekend (now it won't even be with a family member), and continuing to do a show, if the sole purpose of the show was to allow them to minister to others. Seems to me that it all comes down to money. Why do they refer to their speaking engagements as their "business" (outside the network), instead of their "ministry", if it wasn't about making money?

    When do the kids come into play with her plan? She's taken away the people who were their regular caregivers. She continues to do the show, knowing the adverse affects it's having on the kids. She's traveling frequently for speaking engagements and leaving the kids. When will the kids be the priority? She wouldn't have a show without them. I think she's forgetting that THEY are the reason she has all of these opportunities. This brings me to another area I'd like to address, but I'll save that for another post.

    I notice I've been using "she" alot, and that's just because Kate is the mastermind behind this "business" and Jon's just along for the ride. I'm sure he's enjoying all of the finer things just as much as she is, so I don't see any reason he would want to step in and try to talk Kate into doing what's best for the children. They have a goal--"to never work again"--oh, wait, I forgot--their goal is to minister to others.
    *You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body.
    *Faith is the art of holding on to things your reason once accepted, despite your changing moods.
    C.S. Lewis

  10. #40
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    "Truth Breeds Hatred" ~Bias of Priene, Maxims

    Saturday, July 5, 2008
    Twisted-Part 2
    When will the kids be the priority? I think she's forgetting that THEY are the reason she has all of these opportunities. Does she even consider the kids or is it really all about what Kate wants? She wants status, and the finer things in life. She loves the notoriety for being a mother of multiples, although she doesn't want to do any of the things that a "typical" mother does. She has a personal ORGANIC chef who cooks her meals, she has a gardener and lawn service company, she has someone who cleans for her, people who iron, fold and put away her laundry, people who care for the children, and a personal assistant who runs her errands and whatever else she needs. Then she also has Jon around 24/7 to do everything else that she finds distasteful, such as play with the children, bathe them, and put them to bed.

    I've read posts from people who actually call Kate their "hero". I've talked to people who say watching the show makes them feel inadequate. Being a mom of twins and sextuplets would be a piece of cake if you didn't have to do ANY of the things that being a mom entails. I cringe when I hear how so many people idolize her and think she's "supermom". Many people take the show at face value. They believe that the cameras are just following them around and giving them a glimpse into their every day life. That is not the case at all.

    I'm not going to place the blame on Kate for the show, because the viewers should realize that it's TV, not reality. It's staged to provide entertainment. I've talked to people who didn't even consider the "behind the scenes" things that go on to make the show, and really believed that they just had cameras in their house capturing spontaneous moments.

    I do blame Kate for deceiving the viewers during her speaking engagements and appearances on talk shows. I think it was when they did Ellen, and she asked Kate how much help she has and Kate said "15 hrs a week". I couldn't believe that was her answer!! What she was referring to was the "paid help" she was receiving at the time. She had someone who ran errands for her and helped with the kids, paid for by the show. She didn't acknowledge any of the unpaid help. I'm sure that was a slap in the face to both Jodi and Beth, who were standing right behind her--off camera. Why pretend like she's struggling and doing it all alone? Why not tell everyone how grateful she is to have so many good people in her life and how much she appreciates their help and support? Could it be that she wants all of the attention on her? She wants everyone to think she's "supermom"? Maybe if she acknowledges all of her help and perks from the show, the story she wants people to believe won't be so interesting after all.

    We've now come to find out how much these people really did mean to Kate. No wonder she didn't acknowledge them. They were just providing a "service" that she needed at the time, and as soon as other opportunities were made available, she has slowly cut everyone else out of their lives. It's time to move on to bigger and better things. She doesn't need their help anymore because now everything imaginable is provided to them by the network.

    Then a few months after Ellen, I watched them on Oprah. They ran a clip of their "life" and you heard Kate saying her day consisted of "making a meal, feeding a meal, and cleaning up a meal" (x's 3). Where does the personal ORGANIC chef come into that scenario? My parents have actually eaten some of the food prepared for them. They watched Jodi's kids when Jodi was traveling with Kate, and Kate brought up some of the "leftovers" since they were going to be away. Nine jumbo lump crab cakes, and all of sides to go along with it. I think it's great for her that she doesn't have to cook, but why pretend that's all she does all day? Why not talk about something else instead of deceiving the viewers?

    It's very hard for me to understand how she can continue to dwell on how EXHAUSTING her life is when she has been blessed with 8 healthy children. She doesn't have to provide the physical care that many parents deal with when their children have birth defects or are born preterm with other problems. She has every luxury in life handed to her, and she doesn't have to deal with any of the struggles that "normal" parents are faced with. All of these opportunities are as a result of her children, yet she doesn't seem to even consider what's best for them in her plan, and all I hear is how they make her life so "crazy". That's a real shame!!
    *You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body.
    *Faith is the art of holding on to things your reason once accepted, despite your changing moods.
    C.S. Lewis

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