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  1. #41
    Rats off to ya! Mort Belfry's Avatar
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    Wow. Two New Zealand ISFPs in the same thread. I knew we were overrun. Bring back the calicivirus.
    Why do we always come here?

    I guess we'll never know.

    It's like a kind of torture,
    To have to watch this show.

  2. #42
    Intriguing.... Quinlan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sentura View Post
    i searched around for someone that could uphold this. i found nothing. care to link to source of this?
    I always try and keep this in mind when typing people;

    When the _NF_ descriptions are lacking the abstract focus on meaning and purpose, they do not differentiate between Idealist temperament and the Feeling function.... we have found that a vast number of_ S_Ps select "N" responses rather than the "S" responses on the MBTI® , Their behavior and reports have been taken as typical of those with a preference for N. Because of not using the added information in the temperament model or not paying close attention to Jung's definitions and Myers descriptions, the observations of people with _S_P preferences have filtered back into the mainstream definitions of N. When we go back to Jung's descriptions, we find these descriptions have veered off course from the original meaning.
    Extraverted Sensing, the MBTI, and the Artisan Temperament..Some Questions Answered


    Quote Originally Posted by Sentura View Post
    prove to me he is the greatest.
    Well that's impossible isn't it? Unless I know him personally and have a signed confirmation by him, even then he may have mistyped himself.

    prove to me that there is a difference between an average ISFP and a great ISFP. (hint: you can't, it's subjective).
    Why wouldn't there be? To say that they're all the same, you're saying that they will all have the same level of functional development and that their functional abilities have set limits, which has nothing to do with MBTI or Jungian theory.

    honestly it seems more like you just want him to be ISFP because then you'll have a role model with the same archetype as you. i don't think an ISFP would be overstepping any boundaries, because that's not what SPs do. again, feel free to prove me wrong.
    I don't want him to be ISFP, I just think he is. SPs don't step over boundaries? Where is this stated in theory? What I mean is someone with very well developed functions will be taken for many types. I just think he is more artisan than idealist.

    Quote Originally Posted by VagrantFarce View Post
    That is a forum member's list so holds no more validity than anyone other member's opinion here.


    He's the founder of the Shoah Foundation, which is a pretty big deal.
    But his primary focus seems like it has never been social change, more like social impact. I envision the greatest ENFP as someone who fought for radical social change/upheavel, a revolutionary.

    He's a relentlessly optimistic, likeable person who talked his way onto the Universal lot when he was a teenager and set up an office for himself.
    Doesn't rule out ISFP.

    Also, it only takes a cursory glance at his movies to see layers of meaning and depth; the biggest criticism of his films is that they're often too manipulative of their audience, not that they lack depth (this is why films like Schindler's List and Saving Private Ryan were such surprises).
    Those weren't the criticisms I read.

    Also, if you take any stock in this sort of thing, you can trace his function development through his life. He has described himself as someone who "didn't want to grow up" and someone who was running away from responsibility. He notoriously didn't come to terms with his own jewish heritage for a long time. Nowadays he's constantly praising the need for a stable family. On the Actors Studio he says that he values people who "don't just listen to other people, but listen to themselves...most people listen to the shout, rather than the whisper." YouTube - Inside The Actor's Studio Steven Spielberg 1

    I also refuse to believe that a person who dresses like this is an ISP. :P He's a man-child right down to the bone, pure ENFP.
    ISFP is also described as eternally child-like.
    Act your age not your enneagram number.

    Quinlan's Creations

  3. #43
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unwod View Post
    hmmm... Realising its been a while since my 'doors years' I decided to do a short revisit of the man via the internet. And I'll be darned, you seem to be right. The guy was probably enfp.
    yeah, cool i think he is and funny though when trying to think of an awesome enfp example all of the ones that come to mind certainly had their screwed up period...but...i'd say he's a good one anyway as far as showing what a great creative out of the box thinker an enfp can be.
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

  4. #44
    Was E.laur Laurie's Avatar
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    LOL ENFP screwed up period. Makes you wonder!

  5. #45
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elaur View Post
    LOL ENFP screwed up period. Makes you wonder!
    right? haha

    all of the ones i can think of...were screwed up at some point!

    does anyone have any good examples that are not musicians or actors?
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

  6. #46
    Phoenix Incarnate Sentura's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quinlan View Post
    Why wouldn't there be? To say that they're all the same, you're saying that they will all have the same level of functional development and that their functional abilities have set limits, which has nothing to do with MBTI or Jungian theory.
    correct, it has nothing to do with MBTI or jungian theory. it has to do with something as simple as being subjective. there are no average ISFPs, nor are there any great ones. everyone in their type, as far as objectivism goes, is equal. that they may have merit because they have done some outstanding achievements is an entirely different matter; but even then, i never measured "averageness" or "greatness" in number of achievements, but the impact of said achievements.

    I don't want him to be ISFP, I just think he is. SPs don't step over boundaries? Where is this stated in theory? What I mean is someone with very well developed functions will be taken for many types. I just think he is more artisan than idealist.
    first off, i get the feeling you take MBTI as being the complete truth; that nothing stated outside of MBTI can be true. this is a wrong assumption.

    secondly, what i meant to say was that it isn't in the mind of the SP to overstep boundaries - that is what NPs do.


    That is a forum member's list so holds no more validity than anyone other member's opinion here.
    which would include yours as well, and ironically, also the quote above.


    But his primary focus seems like it has never been social change, more like social impact. I envision the greatest ENFP as someone who fought for radical social change/upheavel, a revolutionary.
    i think you're romantizing ENFPs a bit. i think most if not all ENFPs would say that they would be content doing what they believe is right, but more so, they would work with what they love and what their passion. each ENFP changes the world in their own way. it is obvious to me that spielberg is very passionate about creating movies, and i'm sure he has inspired people into changing their ways or beliefs.

    Doesn't rule out ISFP.
    an introvert walking into universal studios and talk his way into getting an office? i doubt that very much, and it would make even less sense if he was S. ENPs on the other hand, have a tendency being charismatic enough to get things their way, and would have the "balls" to walk into an organization to do just that.

    ISFP is also described as eternally child-like.
    mmmmmmmno. ISFPs still abide their S, while ENFPs don't abide anything. there is a certain naivety that only ENFPs can have, and that is exactly what makes them so childlike; as well as creating the belief that no one person is a bad person. this is also part of their charm.

    as for the entire SP versus NF thing:

    when i was new to the MBTI types and couldn't analyze people well, it is true that i observed little difference between SPs and Ns. however, with further understanding, i have been able to decipher the differences. this makes me believe that altruistic love is a NF trait, not a Fi trait. SFi would show love locally, whereas NFi shows love globally.

    it is also worth pointing out that part of this NFi is what gives ENFPs their charm.
    i hunt INXPs for bounty
    FUNCTION ORDER FOR THOSE THAT CANNOT UNDERSTAND WHAT ENXP MEANS: Ne > Ni > Fi=Ti > *

    ...people tell me i have wildfires in my eyes

  7. #47
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    You know, while you FPs are busy arguing, I'm just going to stay over here and quietly take Thomas Jefferson, and both Hannibals, if you don't mind...
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  8. #48
    Intriguing.... Quinlan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sentura View Post
    correct, it has nothing to do with MBTI or jungian theory. it has to do with something as simple as being subjective. there are no average ISFPs, nor are there any great ones. everyone in their type, as far as objectivism goes, is equal. that they may have merit because they have done some outstanding achievements is an entirely different matter; but even then, i never measured "averageness" or "greatness" in number of achievements, but the impact of said achievements.
    Of course! That goes without saying, we're just playing around here.

    first off, i get the feeling you take MBTI as being the complete truth; that nothing stated outside of MBTI can be true. this is a wrong assumption.
    I don't take MBTI seriously at all but if I'm going to have a conversation about someone's MBTI type then we need to both stick within the bounds of the MBTI theory, otherwise we are talking about something else other than an MBTI type, while that might be interesting it's not really relevant. How am I to agree to it when I don't know what context you're using?

    secondly, what i meant to say was that it isn't in the mind of the SP to overstep boundaries - that is what NPs do.
    That is just a huge generalisation, how does this apply to specific situations? I would agree that an NP might be more inclined to overstep abstract boundaries and an SP more inclined to overstep more concrete boundaries but there is nothing stopping either type doing the other thing. Nothing in the theory states what types can and can't do, there is very little mention of potential or any limits on that potential.

    which would include yours as well, and ironically, also the quote above.
    Of course, we're just chucking ideas around aren't we? Or do you know the absolute truth of all these matters?

    i think you're romantizing ENFPs a bit. i think most if not all ENFPs would say that they would be content doing what they believe is right, but more so, they would work with what they love and what their passion. each ENFP changes the world in their own way. it is obvious to me that spielberg is very passionate about creating movies, and i'm sure he has inspired people into changing their ways or beliefs.
    This to me, doesn't indicate one way or the other.


    an introvert walking into universal studios and talk his way into getting an office? i doubt that very much,
    Hmm well thanks for telling half the population what they can't do, I'm sure they'll appreciate that. :rolli:

    and it would make even less sense if he was S. ENPs on the other hand, have a tendency being charismatic enough to get things their way, and would have the "balls" to walk into an organization to do just that.
    It was a chance encounter, who knows exactly what they saw in him on that day? perhaps it was just his raw enthusiasm and curiosity, something ISFPs have in spades. I don't think he would've needed much "talking into" or charisma to get an unpaid job. I don't think balls had much to do with it, he was an enthusiastic and curious SP that disregarded concrete boundaries. He marched to the beat of his own drum obviously.

    mmmmmmmno. ISFPs still abide their S, while ENFPs don't abide anything. there is a certain naivety that only ENFPs can have, and that is exactly what makes them so childlike; as well as creating the belief that no one person is a bad person. this is also part of their charm.
    What exactly does "abiding our S" mean? "No one person is a bad person" could be believed by anyone with Fi, anyone at all actually.

    as for the entire SP versus NF thing:

    when i was new to the MBTI types and couldn't analyze people well, it is true that i observed little difference between SPs and Ns. however, with further understanding, i have been able to decipher the differences. this makes me believe that altruistic love is a NF trait, not a Fi trait. SFi would show love locally, whereas NFi shows love globally.

    it is also worth pointing out that part of this NFi is what gives ENFPs their charm.
    You can believe that, I disagree.
    Act your age not your enneagram number.

    Quinlan's Creations

  9. #49
    Phoenix Incarnate Sentura's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quinlan View Post
    I don't take MBTI seriously at all but if I'm going to have a conversation about someone's MBTI type then we need to both stick within the bounds of the MBTI theory, otherwise we are talking about something else other than an MBTI type, while that might be interesting it's not really relevant. How am I to agree to it when I don't know what context you're using?
    when typing people i use approximations, not generalizations. his function order may not completely be that of an ENFP, but that doesn't mean he isn't close to being an ENFP.


    That is just a huge generalisation, how does this apply to specific situations? I would agree that an NP might be more inclined to overstep abstract boundaries and an SP more inclined to overstep more concrete boundaries but there is nothing stopping either type doing the other thing. Nothing in the theory states what types can and can't do, there is very little mention of potential or any limits on that potential.
    feel free to give me examples of SPs overstepping boundaries. so far i haven't seen any.

    Of course, we're just chucking ideas around aren't we? Or do you know the absolute truth of all these matters?
    i never said that, i just said that your statement saying a specific person said more truth than anyone else holds just as little merit as the rest of discussion. it's about being subjective again.


    This to me, doesn't indicate one way or the other.
    well then, i assume you have a logical deduction to back this up?


    Hmm well thanks for telling half the population what they can't do, I'm sure they'll appreciate that. :rolli:
    are you kidding me? nobody's telling anyone what to do, it's about what they are most likely to do. an introvert is not very likely to walk into a studio, whereas a ENP would be very much likely. it's probability, not orders. can't you have a discussion without attacking the other person?

    It was a chance encounter, who knows exactly what they saw in him on that day? perhaps it was just his raw enthusiasm and curiosity, something ISFPs have in spades. I don't think he would've needed much "talking into" or charisma to get an unpaid job. I don't think balls had much to do with it, he was an enthusiastic and curious SP that disregarded concrete boundaries.
    yeah, no. i don't believe it to be a chance encounter; he was going for it having in mind what he wanted to do. that's NP right there. like i said before, i'm positive he's not introvert.

    also, how is walking into a place asking for a job overstepping a boundary? is there some sort of social stigma against people who have jobs that they want that i'm not aware of?

    here:
    YouTube - Spielberg explains the job

    i'm willing to bet no ISFP would talk like that, let alone say that you need "intuition" as a skill for film making. he's definitely not S.

    He marched to the beat of his own drum obviously.
    something NPs are well known for.


    What exactly does "abiding our S" mean? "No one person is a bad person" could be believed by anyone with Fi, anyone at all actually.
    so you're saying that your Fi charm lets you do what you want or talk like you want to anyone? i doubt it.

    i think the clip from youtube is the killing blow in this discussion. there's no way an ISP would be able to be so open/calm while talking, and the way he deducts requirements from abstraction is a tell tale sign of N.
    i hunt INXPs for bounty
    FUNCTION ORDER FOR THOSE THAT CANNOT UNDERSTAND WHAT ENXP MEANS: Ne > Ni > Fi=Ti > *

    ...people tell me i have wildfires in my eyes

  10. #50
    Senior Member Moiety's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady X View Post
    does anyone have any good examples that are not musicians or actors?
    Mark Twain!



    And I'm out of examples

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