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  1. #11
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PinkPiranha View Post
    Sis and I watch it sometimes if we're up really late and can't sleep. I know someone had mentioned Phil Hellmuth ages ago, thinking he was an ENTJ, and I'd disagreed then, but now I totally get it.

    Kenny Tran - ISFP?

    Antonio Esfandiari - ENTP (yeah, gotta a little crush going on there...)

    Phil Laak - ESTP (appears to be the victim of his own genius)

    Phil Hellmuth - ENTJ

    Tom Dwan - xNTJ (and I suspect Asperger's...)

    Bob Safai - ISTJ

    Doyle - ISTJ

    Haha yeah Hellmuth is a poster boy for ENTJ. He's so particular in the way he insists that his theoretical conception of poker be followed in the play of others, and he has no problem commanding and berating them for not falling in line. It's hysterical.

    ISFP sounds good for Tran, but he doesn't talk much so it's hard to say.

    Antonio Esfandiari is totally ENTP, good read.

    ISTJ sounds fair enough for Bob Safai, and INTJ is definitely right for Dwan. That kid is terrifying; did you catch his 5x pot 130k bluff against Safai because he put him on marginal top pair on the river? Sick. His explanation for the play in the director's cut was really interesting as well.

    Phil Laak is definitely ENTP, though. The outthinking yourself thing is a big problem for NPs; look at Daniel Negreanu (ENFP.)

    And as for Doyle...he's just like Matusow, total ESTP. His game is based totally on awareness of present-moment personal dynamics, not long term averages of all possible plays. (Listen to Doyle vs. Dwan discussing hands and reads if you want a great example of the S vs. N dichotomy on these perspectives.)

    Look at the way Doyle will make plays like cold call a preflop raise with KK and then call down two or three barrels. Deeper chip stacks, as in a cash game, favor N players because the Sensor's "right now" read stands to lose more on the occasions when it's wrong. Doyle's strategy in deep stack cash is deliberately directed at minimizing pot size and taking advantage of overly aggressive players by snapping off 2- and 3-barrels. And he's really good at it.

    If you've read his book Super/System, you'll know that he gained prominence in a time when cash games were played with much smaller stacks, and now he doesn't win nearly as much as he used to since the huge rash of extremely mathematical N-type internet players started to take over the scene, and both cash game and tournament stacks got much deeper in most games. "It's like playing against a computer," he says. How telling.

    An N player can't hone in on the exact specifics of the current hand as well, and so good S players actually have stronger overall reads...but N players make up for this with a broader contextual understanding of average hand ranges by studying long-term play data. N wonders what the theory says the pieces of information he's given should say about what hands he should have and how often; S cuts this step out of the process and just reads directly into what he *does* have *this* time.

    It's extraordinarily interesting to me how both approaches can produce huge success when used correctly.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  2. #12
    no clinkz 'til brooklyn Nocapszy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    It's extraordinarily interesting to me how both approaches can produce huge success when used correctly.
    Particularly in that it proves that no such typological distinctions [f]or predictions can be made, thereby making the rest of your post obsolete.

    I would have deleted it.
    we fukin won boys

  3. #13
    Junior Member Mozzes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    INTJ is definitely right for Dwan. That kid is terrifying; did you catch his 5x pot 130k bluff against Safai because he put him on marginal top pair on the river? Sick. His explanation for the play in the director's cut was really interesting as well.
    Dwan is great. He seems to be a little weak in multi-handed pots but I don't think I've seen a better player heads-up. I've seen him play a bunch of heads-up Omaha Hi against Gus Hansen on FTP and Dwan almost always comes out a big winner.

    What do you guys think about Scotty Nguyen?

  4. #14
    The Black Knight Domino's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    Haha yeah Hellmuth is a poster boy for ENTJ. He's so particular in the way he insists that his theoretical conception of poker be followed in the play of others, and he has no problem commanding and berating them for not falling in line. It's hysterical.
    Did you see them all teasing him about his "trap" method? That was so funny.

    ISFP sounds good for Tran, but he doesn't talk much so it's hard to say.
    Agreed. I try to decipher people starting in my strong areas - Fe or Ni, and if I think I'm seeing neither, then I can narrow things down rapidly. Tran doesn't speak much, and yet he still manages to be involved, so I figured ISFP. Truly though I'm having some trouble working him out.

    Antonio Esfandiari is totally ENTP, good read.
    He's adorable. And his interplay with Phil Laak is so bro-mance. lol I love being able to play around with my girlfriends in a similar manner.

    ISTJ sounds fair enough for Bob Safai
    Did you hear how much money the man has?? Did he not just close on some real estate or something for $80M? I can't even conceive of that much money.

    INTJ is definitely right for Dwan. That kid is terrifying; did you catch his 5x pot 130k bluff against Safai because he put him on marginal top pair on the river? Sick. His explanation for the play in the director's cut was really interesting as well.
    He's scary! Sis and I cheer for him all the time. It's funny watching him take down Safai piece by piece. And it seemed, like last night, that he was playing almost every hand that he got dealt. It's funny to watch him explain himself - like a super computer with a personality loosely attached. He HAS to be Asperger's.

    Phil Laak is definitely ENTP, though. The outthinking yourself thing is a big problem for NPs; look at Daniel Negreanu (ENFP.)
    You don't think Phil is operating on Se? Ne and Se can mimic pretty hard at times. What's your argument for Ne over Se with Phil?

    And as for Doyle...he's just like Matusow, total ESTP. His game is based totally on awareness of present-moment personal dynamics, not long term averages of all possible plays. (Listen to Doyle vs. Dwan discussing hands and reads if you want a great example of the S vs. N dichotomy on these perspectives.)

    Look at the way Doyle will make plays like cold call a preflop raise with KK and then call down two or three barrels. Deeper chip stacks, as in a cash game, favor N players because the Sensor's "right now" read stands to lose more on the occasions when it's wrong. Doyle's strategy in deep stack cash is deliberately directed at minimizing pot size and taking advantage of overly aggressive players by snapping off 2- and 3-barrels. And he's really good at it.

    If you've read his book Super/System, you'll know that he gained prominence in a time when cash games were played with much smaller stacks, and now he doesn't win nearly as much as he used to since the huge rash of extremely mathematical N-type internet players started to take over the scene, and both cash game and tournament stacks got much deeper in most games. "It's like playing against a computer," he says. How telling.

    An N player can't hone in on the exact specifics of the current hand as well, and so good S players actually have stronger overall reads...but N players make up for this with a broader contextual understanding of average hand ranges by studying long-term play data. N wonders what the theory says the pieces of information he's given should say about what hands he should have and how often; S cuts this step out of the process and just reads directly into what he *does* have *this* time.

    It's extraordinarily interesting to me how both approaches can produce huge success when used correctly.
    VERY interesting profile of Doyle.
    eNFJ 4w3 sx/so 468 tritype
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    Dramatic>Sensitive>Serious

  5. #15
    no clinkz 'til brooklyn Nocapszy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PinkPiranha View Post
    You don't think Phil is operating on Se? Ne and Se can mimic pretty hard at times. What's your argument for Ne over Se with Phil?
    Nah. Outthinking yourself has nothing to do with N_P.
    It's more a tireless Thinking type's habit if even in accord with any at all.

    Intuition will surely 'help' this phenomenon but so also will Sensation.

    More importantly, you can clearly see that there's no such thing as abstraction in Laak's dialog and diction.

    He's an S.
    we fukin won boys

  6. #16
    The Black Knight Domino's Avatar
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    Phil sounds like every brilliant theoretical ESTP I've ever met. One of my foremen was that way. He reminded me of Ben Franklin with his hypothesizing and inventiveness. He loved discussing the impossibility of a perpetual motion machine all the while plotting to build one. He was a painfully smart man.

    Even with all of Phil's mental ramblings and theories, he still feels grounded to me.
    eNFJ 4w3 sx/so 468 tritype
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  7. #17
    no clinkz 'til brooklyn Nocapszy's Avatar
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    Which brings up one of the mistakes most important to attend to when reading online literature:

    It's an enormous misconception to equate aptitude for theory with Intuitive perception.
    I blame Americans' semantics and Axe deodorant for this particular style of idiotry.
    we fukin won boys

  8. #18
    The Black Knight Domino's Avatar
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    Well, Dwan's pile is around $400K now. The internet kid is on a roll.

    Phil Laak = gardening craze... lol
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  9. #19
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    I agree with everything except:

    Phil Laak - My initial thought was ISTP.


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  10. #20
    Artisan Conquerer Halla74's Avatar
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    What is this thing you speak of called "television?"

    Surely this is a sick joke.

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