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  1. #111
    Probably Most Brilliant Craft's Avatar
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    Jung's Personality Types already makes me think of Ni dom Ter Ti.

  2. #112
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksei View Post
    I don't see how he's showing Ne. He's focused on one vision, one Platonic ideal, one fixation. And it's gazing into the unknown, the hidden, the obscure. It seems very Ni to me. That, and he describes himself as utterly failing at Sensing, which would suggest S-inferior. INTPs, especially adult INTPs, are quite good at Si (and indeed fairly Si-reliant). And his description of what does exist of that S function strikes me as Se - a focus on the immediate, the present, the visible external reality.
    He created this theory, and he says himself that thinking was strongest for him. Tertiary Ti in INFJs is NOT that strong. He seems to refer to his first two functions as T & N, with lesser use of F & S, but he doesn't say what attitudes they have. Now, if we're looking at "irregular" function order, and if he is an extreme introvert (which I really do not know...), then maybe he is Ti-dom & Ni-aux, but then what is his extroverted function still? It doesn't have to be Fe or Se....it could very well be Ne, and that's why he's such a sensor-tard. In that case, he'd still be closer to an INTP in MBTI. Or it could be Fe, which would make him something like an INFJ.

    Frankly, I think I do see Ne though. He was inspired to create/write Psychological Types by his parting with Freud, because he felt it was basically due to personality differences. He got ideas from perceiving possibilities behind external things. He even says that unlike Freud, he preferred to be in doubt, whereas once Freud had his mind made up, that was it. Jung's approach sounds Pe to me; hold off on forming beliefs until enough info has been taken in.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

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  3. #113
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    Jung's Type: A Good Man. That's what I see.

  4. #114
    Probably Most Brilliant Craft's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    Frankly, I think I do see Ne though. He was inspired to create/write Psychological Types by his parting with Freud, because he felt it was basically due to personality differences. He got ideas from perceiving possibilities behind external things. He even says that unlike Freud, he preferred to be in doubt, whereas once Freud had his mind made up, that was it. Jung's approach sounds Pe to me; hold off on forming beliefs until enough info has been taken in.
    So you think he gets ideas from the external because he holds off on forming beliefs?

  5. #115
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Craft View Post
    So you think he gets ideas from the external because he holds off on forming beliefs?
    No, reread what I wrote. I gave a specific example of an idea he got from an observation of something external, namely his relationship with Freud; it's in the videos, if you even watched them.... The forming beliefs part is a separate point, also in the video.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

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  6. #116
    Probably Most Brilliant Craft's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    I gave a specific example of an idea he got from an observation of something external, namely his relationship with Freud; it's in the videos
    His relationship with Freud is an example of an idea from observation of something external? Could you quote it or point me to the minute:second?

  7. #117
    Yeah, I can fly. Aleksei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    He seems to refer to his first two functions as T & N, with lesser use of F & S, but he doesn't say what attitudes they have. Now, if we're looking at "irregular" function order, and if he is an extreme introvert (which I really do not know...), then maybe he is Ti-dom & Ni-aux, but then what is his extroverted function still? It doesn't have to be Fe or Se....it could very well be Ne, and that's why he's such a sensor-tard. In that case, he'd still be closer to an INTP in MBTI. Or it could be Fe, which would make him something like an INFJ.

    Frankly, I think I do see Ne though. He was inspired to create/write Psychological Types by his parting with Freud, because he felt it was basically due to personality differences. He got ideas from perceiving possibilities behind external things. He even says that unlike Freud, he preferred to be in doubt, whereas once Freud had his mind made up, that was it. Jung's approach sounds Pe to me; hold off on forming beliefs until enough info has been taken in.
    These are good points.

    He created this theory, and he says himself that thinking was strongest for him. Tertiary Ti in INFJs is NOT that strong.
    This is not.

    First off, people fuck up their self-perceptions all the time. It leads to, for an example, balding middle-aged men thinking they're hot studs, buying beemers, and stalking cheerleaders. And tertiary functions can actually be very strong -- I thought for the longest time I was Ne-dominant, remember? The tertiary usually develops around the early to mid 20s, and based on my observations it seems to often develop earlier in very intelligent people.
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  8. #118
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    From the horse's mouth (that horse being Carl Jung). In the video below, go to the 8:45 mark. He says, "I most certainly was capitalized by thinking...and I had a great deal of intuition too. And I had a definite difficulty with feeling." Then he goes on to describe himself as a sensor-tard .

    There are more interviews on youtube out there....I recall a quote from him somewhere in which he said he felt he needed to sacrifice his superior Thinking to develop his iNuition, which again suggests T-dom and N-aux.

    Jung took a much more positive view to a person's internal world with his concept of introversion, compared to Freud who saw connection to the unconscious as a mental illness. I suspect this is because he was an introvert and valued his own inner world. I don't think much argument needs to be made for him being an introvert though...

    I think that all of this clearly indicates TiNe for him, with inferior feeling, making him an INTP in MBTI terms. I also think what he says about Freud in this interview (there are 4 parts on youtube) suggests ETJ for him...

    Starting at 4:56, the TiNe mindset seems apparent to me also....Jung basically says needs a reason to believe in something, and then the possibilities will be considered.
    I listened to this entire interview several months back and I heard him say he was an INTP.

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  9. #119
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Craft View Post
    His relationship with Freud is an example of an idea from observation of something external? Could you quote it or point me to the minute:second?
    Er, you twisted my wording into something else again....

    Anyway, I think it might be in one of the videos I did not post...I don't have time to watch them again & find the exact time. At one point, he mentions how his break with Freud inspired the idea for Psychological Types. It occurred to him that the main reason behind their disagreements was their different ways of thinking.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

  10. #120
    Senior Member the state i am in's Avatar
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    http://marcbeneteau.com/2009/07/carl...g-and-purpose/ (the last section of memories, dreams, and reflections)

    quotes lao-tzu and infj 5w4 sx/sp holderlin. writes about ultimate meaning, being, the source of everything, meaningfulness vs meaninglessness, connected vs separated.

    the daimon is the sx/sp energy pulling you away from moderation, constant seeking, endless need for growth, expansion, intensity. same as 5w4 sx/sp nietzsche.

    Ni is the function obsessed with the unknown in which the unreal takes precedence over the real. the inklings that tease us, that make us feel separate, alien, unchartable. the thick fog that prevents us from seeing anything, until we encompass all fog and let it coalesce and condense and pass cycle after cycle in our own goddamned interiors. while, in the meantime, we can see everything or we can see absolutely nothing but the ether encompassing us, representing us, as myst.

    the fool rushing ahead to the dismay of others, the leaving fallen comrades with a sorrowful shrug, the unending search for consistency that runs contrary to the blood flowing within us and the spotlight of our intense interest that we cannot control-- these things terrify and haunt me. and i feel unequipped to handle them as faith, as destiny, is my only imperfect but elusive solution. the need for acceptance (of an unreal, imaginary destiny) amidst the impossibility of belief (see 5w4 infj sx/sp wittgenstein).

    infj 5w4 sx/sp. there's no Ji solidity. there's only change, uncertainty, the unknown, a return to the source, a recognition of the continuity of existence. and a hope that ultimately, meaning wins in some grandiose cosmic scale unavailable to our consciousness, but that in each moment of meaning, in each new metaphysic, we feel like we somehow win, we have something, some new triumph of meaning, to celebrate as our own.

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