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  1. #21
    heart on fire
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    Quote Originally Posted by heart View Post
    I don't care who shares the INFP type. It isn't like we were al hatched from the same pod or anything. It is just a tool for personal discovery to me, not something that I think defines the very core of me and who I am. Of course there will be INFP whose actions I don't agree with, we aren't the same people. There are INFP on message boards that I really, really do not agree with and would not want in my private life, so I imagine that would be greater out in the wide real world.
    Oh just look at my ridculous previous statement...going to eat my words here because I just saw new ager guru, self described relationship expert John Gray (men are from mars, women from venus) described as INFP. Ugh.

    I still don't see how he could really not be SJ, I mean he has this one size fits all approach to male/female relationships and pretty much favors cookie cutter traditional versions of male and female gender roles. That is what drove me nuts about reading his stuff...not to mention the insipid way he presents it.

    Here is some of his other advice folks, to feel cosmic energy from source, hold your hands up and out above head and soon you'll be feeling the tingling of cosmic energy! lol.

  2. #22
    Senior Member Lookin4theBestNU's Avatar
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    If I am going by this list as being pretty accurate:ENFJ Profile
    the only one I find disturbing is Bob Saget though Kirstie Alley is annoying too.
    "At points of clarity, I realize that my life on earth is meaningless, and that I am merely a pawn in a bigger game. A game I cannot possibly understand or have control of. Thankfully, before depression sets in, I drift back into my cloudy, bewildered daily routine." **Joel Patrick Warneke**

  3. #23
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lookin4theBestNU View Post
    the only one I find disturbing is Bob Saget though Kirstie Alley is annoying too.
    Are those right?

    No way in he... um, hades... would I classify Kirstie Alley as an N.

    Bob Saget's reading is difficult to begin with because of that pabulum he served up in Full House. (I have been just dying to see his turn in The Aristocrats because it went so much against his public image.)

    Quote Originally Posted by heart View Post
    Oh just look at my ridculous previous statement...going to eat my words here because I just saw new ager guru, self described relationship expert John Gray [/URL](men are from mars, women from venus) described as INFP. Ugh.

    I still don't see how he could really not be SJ, I mean he has this one size fits all approach to male/female relationships and pretty much favors cookie cutter traditional versions of male and female gender roles. That is what drove me nuts about reading his stuff...not to mention the insipid way he presents it.
    I don't know, Heart. I haven't really read the books carefully nor studied him personally... but I would have guessed INFP if I had to make an off-the-cuff reading. That's the "vibe" I get from him, from his public image... but I definitely need to examine him more carefully to have a serious answer for you.

    (At the same time I understand why it would gall you to have him in your type bracket. )
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  4. #24
    Senior Member Lookin4theBestNU's Avatar
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    He also had a small part in the movie half-baked in which he stated "I've sucked dick for coke" which also went against his image. He claimed in an interview this is the quote most people remember him for most often. I have been told that his stand-up comedy is rather dirty...but in Full house he was an ENFJ angel parent.
    "At points of clarity, I realize that my life on earth is meaningless, and that I am merely a pawn in a bigger game. A game I cannot possibly understand or have control of. Thankfully, before depression sets in, I drift back into my cloudy, bewildered daily routine." **Joel Patrick Warneke**

  5. #25
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lookin4theBestNU View Post
    He also had a small part in the movie half-baked in which he stated "I've sucked dick for coke" which also went against his image.
    omg... that's terrible. (I need to see that one too!) Sigh, yes, I really *am* a provokateur.

    I have been told that his stand-up comedy is rather dirty...but in Full house he was an ENFJ angel parent.
    Do you think that's the reason he got classed as ENFJ? Because of his TV role, not because of his RL type?
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  6. #26
    Senior Member Lookin4theBestNU's Avatar
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    I am not totally sure. He also hosted Americas funniest home videos for awhile in which he was a total goofball. I would like to think my type is not that cheesy but perhaps it is. I do understand that chances are he didn't write those lame-o jokes (hopefully). He is a perv underneath his sweet image....which is very similar to how I am IRL.

    YouTube - Bob Saget 'Half Baked'
    "At points of clarity, I realize that my life on earth is meaningless, and that I am merely a pawn in a bigger game. A game I cannot possibly understand or have control of. Thankfully, before depression sets in, I drift back into my cloudy, bewildered daily routine." **Joel Patrick Warneke**

  7. #27
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lookin4theBestNU View Post
    I am not totally sure. He also hosted Americas funniest home videos for awhile in which he was a total goofball. I would like to think my type is not that cheesy but perhaps it is. I do understand that chances are he didn't write those lame-o jokes (hopefully). He is a perv underneath his sweet image....which is very similar to how I am IRL.
    omg, that was.... awful!!!

    I never even heard the joke before. I ended up watching Sarah Silverman and Gilbert Gottfried also, and then the South Park version. (Sarah's hilarious because she straight-faces the entire story, leaving you wondering if she's telling the truth; she's very good at deadpan humor. Gilbert was funny just because he had Ron Schneider on the floor. But Cartman's version had me laughing the hardest, because it was so horrible.)

    It was a good video of Saget, though, because of all the things he would say as an aside to the actual joke; very insightful into his personality. It must have really killed him to be on Full House and AFHV.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  8. #28
    heart on fire
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Are those right?

    No way in he... um, hades... would I classify Kirstie Alley as an N.

    Bob Saget's reading is difficult to begin with because of that pabulum he served up in Full House. (I have been just dying to see his turn in The Aristocrats because it went so much against his public image.)



    I don't know, Heart. I haven't really read the books carefully nor studied him personally... but I would have guessed INFP if I had to make an off-the-cuff reading. That's the "vibe" I get from him, from his public image... but I definitely need to examine him more carefully to have a serious answer for you.

    (At the same time I understand why it would gall you to have him in your type bracket. )
    How can anyone be typed without an example of their thoughts and how they think? Unless he is merely publishing the works of others, I have a hard time seeing him as any kind of "P" type. He definitely has a one size fits all, traditional gender roles are everything, type of shtick.

  9. #29
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    "Leibniz was one of the supreme intellects of all time, but as a human being he was not admirable. He had, it is true, the virtues that one would wish to find mentioned in a testimonial to a prospective employee: he was industrious, frugal, temperate, and financially honest. But he was wholly destitute of those higher philosophical virtues that are so notable in Spinoza. His best thought was not such as would win him popularity, and he left his records of it unpublished in his desk. What he published was designed to win the approbation of prices and princesses. The consequence is that there are two systems of philosophy which may be regarded as representing: Leibniz: one, which he proclaimed, was optimistic, orthodox, fantastic, and shallow; the other, which has been slowly unearthed from his manuscripts by fairly recent editors, was profound, coherent, largely Spinozists, and amazingly logical. It was the popular Leibniz who invented the doctrine that this is the best of all possible worlds; it was this Leibniz whom Voltaire caricatured as Doctor Pangloss." Bertrand Russell

    I think that sums it up well. Leibniz was a logician, yet built himself a stature as a religious propagandist whose metaphysics, whilst pertaining an air of profundity does not in the least deviate from the popular prejudices of the Christian community. In short, his philosophy, as a whole was no more than an apology for the Church--the champion of wilfull ignorance and sanctimony. Indeed this is the best of all possible worlds that we live in, obviously God (I mean the church) couldnt do any wrong...all the evil things that we have..like child molestation and pogroms are obviously necessary entailments of all the good things that there are..Those who protest obviously know not what they say or what they do, their religion knows better...you suffering in this world will be shown to be a good thing in the world to come..or even more likely! This goodness is manifest in this world already, we are just too blind to see!

    And indeed there is also free will, god forbid anyone say a word to the contrary to the book of dogma..the whole world is immaterial..noone gives a shit how counter-intuitive this is..and its comprised of monads..and monads are the human souls...Yes the human souls..the highest essence of the universe that there is..not only do we have souls..but our God is so great that he has blessedALL OF HIS CREATIONS IN HIS BEST OF ALL POSSIBLE WORLDS with a soul! This table..this chair..my cat..all bursting with inner vitality and self-approbation, they are all living things! Such is the glory of our God!

    Oh yes..since God is infinite, all worlds are possible..we could be swimming in the lake of fire for all that we know..but God..since he is so magnanimous, has only kept those potentials in mind and only actualized what is BEST! And yes it is best for only us...At first..I cringed at this idea thinking that Leibniz must not mean its the best of all possible worlds in a moral sense, that he must have meant this metaphysically. That with the way it is constructed in terms of mechanics, it functions better and has nothing to do with how it makes us feel..But noo...it is best for us and only us..than otherwise, Leibniz asserts, there is no reason to call it the best of all possible worlds..as indeed it sounds like he is using that emotionally, rather than attempting to be linguistically precise.

    I dont get how he reconciles the infinity of God with the assertion that monads are fundamental to the essence of ultimate reality, and that God exists exactly the way he does in scripture, in 3 persons. In infinity, there could not be quantity. And in the finite world, having the axioms that we established, whatever is theoretically possible exists, and what isnt, doesnt exist. There couldnt be any possible worlds..and Leibniz knew this..he was just trying to win favor of his queen...

    To this day students of philosophy, after having gone through Hume, Kant and Spinoza..and having gotten a firm handle on all of their philosophies..Leibniz isnt making any sense at all..why his system is the least Intuitive and of lowest utility in terms of epistemic pragmatism..That is because it was all a sophism. It was aimed not at the quest for the truth, but for the appeasement of the vainglory of the multitude! And indeed he knew Spinoza personally and borrowed many of his ideas upon which the unpublished aspects of his philosophy were erected upon, and was secretely a Spinozist himself..scorned himself to shivers at mentioning the very idea that he had something to do with Spinoza..

    And when all of the ignorance and hypocrisy that Leibniz dedicated his whole career to espousing, has been exposed in the Theological-Political Treatise, Leibniz begged a learned theologian friend of his to write a refutation of Spinoza's 'monstrous heresy'...and about five years down the road he was down at Hague talking to Spinoza's former landloard, wishing to set up a meeting (Apparently he thought that just because his scribblings are held in high esteem he now has the right to waste time of great men)..The landloard refused to comply, but Leibniz actually pestered him into giving away some information from the Ethic..which he.very soon turned over to those who matter..where was thoroughly exploited in glory of Mother Church..
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

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  10. #30
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sahara View Post
    Osama Bin Laden, I am ashamed to be of the same type (which according to things I have read make him an INFP) as him. Sure he is fighting for his values and what he believes in, but ordering the death of thousands? is that even an infp thing to do?

    I couldn't watch people being killed for differing beliefs than mine, if Fi means to care more about what it takes for the person to be happy, how then can his Fi need to impose what he sees as good onto others, and if not kill them?

    Who do you wish wasn't a representative for your type?
    Perhaps he was an INFJ? He does not seem like the kind of an Idealist who would derive inner satisfaction solely from the attument with his principles.

    He seemed like an internally focused visionary who would not be satisfied with just personal knowledge of his own inner soundness, but only if he were to live out his vision in entirety. (Very much like Nietzsche and the Jewish Prophets) As Jung said, if it wasnt for those with a dominant Introverted Intuition, there would be no Jewish prophets.

    Bin Laden seems more like the kind of a visionary that Hitler was. He was a mastermind, not a virtue seeking venturer like John Milton(INFP) was. Whose life, in many ways was a search for paradise and his masterpiece the 'Paradise Lost' poem was the best symbolization for a quintissential INFP mindset one can find..Constant longing to transcend this world, a perennial search for a higher purpose, the quest for the true good...such individuals very rarely tend to become content with their visions.

    ''Somewhere in the 1600s a man who could not see, sat down to write what he thought would be the greatest poem in human history. He said it would include, in his words, ''things yet unattempted in prose or rhyme.'' It is the view of the modern world that he achieved just that. His poem, the paradise Lost, is considered the greatest epic in human history. Few poems take on such an enormous theme as Paradise Lost, a theme that is not less than the origin of evil in itself. The man who took on this ambitious challenge, and created a classic in the process, is a man who led a life of immense struggle, loss and sacrifice. In a sense, John Milton's life was a search for paradise-a life in which the poet became the poem.''

    the Judging function of INPs is always in progress (as analogously, Albert Einstein pondered his impersonal problems with the same relentless Zeal that Milton sought his paradise with)..Yet Bin Laden and Hitler first worked their vision out very clearly, and then, as true Judgers, they decided that their vision is not only good for them..but for everybody else also...and it has more to do with the human element than impersonal entities (FJ), so they force it onto others..

    INFPs are not concerned with public welfare to the extent that INFJs are. That notion is more germane to Fe than Fi. They value the individual beyond all else, and the ultimate good for them (unlike FJs) is not changing society, but experiencing a true sense of exaltation of their inner being..and this can only be an individualistic endeavor..as Introverted Judgment functions (Fi/Ti) are the most individualistic of all..it only matters to discover the good, it doesnt have to have anything to do with the external world..Just like Milton's goal was finding a sense of exaltation for himself and thought that he could only discover this on his own, and for everyone else it must be a strictly individualistic endeavor..yet Bin Laden seems to be a firm believer of the need to assist others to arrive at the 'good' that he has in mind..very J indeed..

    Moreover, it is easy to mistake an INFP for an INFJ and vice versa because in the Ni-Fe, the Fe is bent inwards and begins to resemble an Fi..and with the INFP (Fi-Ne), Ne is bent inwards and begins to resemble Ni..it is easier for us to mistype someone who is an INFJ for an INFP than the other way around because judging functions are more definitive in their nature, whilst perceiving (Introverted Intuition) tends to be much less clear-cut in their defining qualities..

    You're absolutely right, Fi is about what is good for the individual, forcing beliefs on others is an ignominy in INP ethic..yet with the Js, not only is it tolerable, but also highly desirable because Fe/Te are concerned with what is good for everyone..(I think they too often mistake what appeases the whims of their egocentric whim with the public good, especially the INJs and all their irrational visions..they have a less clear-cut notion of the external standard than those with the dominant Extroverted Judging function)..abominations that Bin Laden has turned into could well be expected among INFJs, because they, as Js tend to value power as they assess themselves by external standards and led by an irrational vision..so almost anything is possible..given the right circumstances..but not with the INFPs...who are first and foremost in tune with their inner principles which strive for nothing other than the true good...the Mitonian Paradise.

    A fundamental difference could be imputed to the following..Fi seeks out the higher essence to its own end..yet Ni can only perceive it..yet can not make sense of it based on inner standards the way that Fi does..so it has to rely on the assistance of Fe, which operates on conventional standards. That is why they have a need to translate their visions into concrete entities. Tasting paradise isnt enough for the INFJ, and experiencing it isnt either..because they cant make sense of it internally..so they have to bring it down to Earth..(Fe), yet the INFP would well be content with the inner experience alone..
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

    “No man but a blockhead ever wrote, except for money.”---Samuel Johnson

    My blog: www.randommeanderings123.blogspot.com/

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