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  1. #1
    Dhampyr Economica's Avatar
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    Default Marilyn Manson's type

    What say you to MM as an INFJ?

    On Politically Incorrect (1996) <-- At age 27
    On The O'Reilly Factor (2002)
    Written statement in Rolling Stone after Columbine

    A generation of unhappy teenagers has worshipped him as its messiah, a role he took upon himself with the title Antichrist Superstar in a gesture that practically defines poetic justice. He is a spokesperson for individuality and at the same time preaches his view of the world and his ideals. He admits to being shy and he is often described as surprisingly intelligent, thoughtful and articulate.

    Could he be one of the elusive male INFJs?
    Last edited by Economica; 08-20-2007 at 03:37 PM.

  2. #2
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Hmm, funny, my first thought was that he was INFP, before even opening the thread. I'd accept INFJ as well, although the way he writes feels very INFP still... it's not a singular point that gives me that vibe.

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    I would say you're probably right on INFJ.

    Marilyn Manson is also typed as a 4 in the Enneagram, which, incidentally, is called the Individualist and generally corresponds to the Ni type.

    An INFP is an Fi dominant, and so would have softer ideals. Aided by Ne, the INFP comes off as dreamy. The INFP is less likely to have a fanatical individualistic streak the way an Ni dominant would, but a more "go-with-the-flow" dreamy nature.

    I think he's an Ni dominant, aided by Fe, because he is more people oriented, so INFJ for me, as well. Economica, are you sure we can't be friends?

  4. #4
    Dhampyr Economica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uberfuhrer View Post
    Economica, are you sure we can't be friends?
    Uberfuhrer, I have nothing against you, only your trolling behavior. Make thoughtful contributions instead and I will conversely express my appreciation.

    You don't seem to have very much RL typing experience and so my typing threads probably aren't the right place to start, however, getting honestly, relevantly and substantially personal in your blog would win me over and then some.

    (Sorry, me, for getting OT. )

    Edit:

    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    Hmm, funny, my first thought was that he was INFP, before even opening the thread. I'd accept INFJ as well, although the way he writes feels very INFP still... it's not a singular point that gives me that vibe.
    I see him as pronouncedly J, actually. His strength is in single-mindedly championing his cause, usually relying on pre-prepared arguments. He doesn't do well on the spur of the moment and rarely improvises a snappy comeback. Sometimes his humor is misplaced and falls flat and I recognize it as the regurgitation of something clever he's thought of before that just doesn't quite fit in the context. To me all of it spells J rather than P/Ni rather than Ne.

    As for the overall INFJ reading, isn't he in fact a poster boy?
    Last edited by Economica; 08-21-2007 at 03:36 AM.

  5. #5
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Economica View Post
    I see him as pronouncedly J, actually. His strength is in single-mindedly championing his cause, usually relying on pre-prepared arguments. He doesn't do well on the spur of the moment and rarely improvises a snappy comeback. Sometimes his humor is misplaced and falls flat and I recognize it as the regurgitation of something clever he's thought of before that just doesn't quite fit in the context. To me all of it spells J rather than P/Ni rather than Ne.

    As for the overall INFJ reading, isn't he in fact a poster boy?
    Ok, you won me over with the lack of social understand and adaptability. I didn't look into it much, but my first impression was INFP. His writing still feels very INFP to me, but his behaviour otherwise doesn't... I imagine he probably has either lots of time or editors that change the way I see him writing.

  6. #6
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Economica View Post
    Could he be one of the elusive male INFJs?
    The interviews of him i've seen strike me as an STP. I realize the assumptions on this forum are that STs cannot be creative and such, but that is not consistent with the MBTI literature. There is a bizarre manner in which STPs get confused with INFJs when they lead. I think this is because they share all the same functions, but in a different order. INFJs are intensely private. He is a showman, and an incredible business man. He adores shock value - something that INFJs avoid like the plague. He could be the same type as Madonna. These image intense people are strategists in a way that is not compatible with INFJness. INFJs are not image conscious in this way. Few people in pop culture are INFJs - maybe a few method actors and modest, counterculture musicians.

    INFJs are very private, nuanced, complex, inward, hidden. Their expression is not overt, shocking, showman style. The reason I am quicker to call DeNiro an INFJ is because he has the capacity to disappear, observe a sea of details and nuance about people, then recreate using intense empathy. I can't swear to either being INFJ, but I'd place a decent sized bet on DeNiro over MM.

    Quote Originally Posted by Economica View Post
    As for the overall INFJ reading, isn't he in fact a poster boy?
    I worked for a male INFJ employer. Not even close.

    As an INFJ artist myself i can tell you that shock value and drama is not the dialogue of Ni-Fe, etc. INFJ art is intense understatement and nuance.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

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    Dhampyr Economica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    His writing still feels very INFP to me, but his behaviour otherwise doesn't... I imagine he probably has either lots of time or editors that change the way I see him writing.
    That reminds me... Do we have any active male INFJ members?

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    Quote Originally Posted by toonia View Post
    The interviews of him i've seen strike me as an STP. I realize the assumptions on this forum are that STs cannot be creative and such, but there is a bizarre manner in which STPs get confused with INFJs when they lead. I think this is because they share all the same functions, but in a different order. INFJs are intensely private. He is a showman, and an incredible business man. He adores shock value - something that INFJs avoid like the plague. He could be the same type as Madonna. These image intense people are strategists in a way that is not compatible with INFJness. INFJs are not image conscious in this way. Few people in pop culture are INFJs - maybe a few method actors and modest, counterculture musicians.

    INFJs are very private, nuanced, complex, inward, hidden. Their expression is not overt, shocking, showman style. The reason I am quicker to call DeNiro an INFJ is because he has the capacity to disappear, observe a sea of details and nuance about people, then recreate using intense empathy. I can't swear to either being INFJ, but I'd place a decent sized bet on DeNiro over MM.
    Shock value is an N thing. The S would probably be more modest, where the N seeks to be idiosyncratic.

    By rule, creativity and sticking out from the crowd is a product of N. There seems to be the illusion that intelligence is linked to N, but as we all know, that's untrue. However, the N, and particularly the NJ, seeks to rebel against the norm.

    EDIT: Marilyn Manson is, out of principle, not unlike Martin Luther King, Jr. (an xNFJ, maybe?). Both were rebels and neither were/are particularly modest in their expression. Both were extremely forceful in their views. Both sought to make impact. Their expression was through very different means and for very different reasons, but in essence, they caused the same sort of rebellion.

    The difference is the N actively seeks to shake people up. True, the S may shake things up and be creative, but it isn't in their nature to try to be unconventional. The N may not necessarily be creative, but creativity is something the N values, and therefore will try to be creative.

    Humans are gregarious creatures. The N is aware of a desire to make an impact in an unusual way -- to think and do outside of the box. The S will make their impact by finding a new way of doing things, but not necessarily looking for it.

  9. #9
    Dhampyr Economica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by toonia View Post
    The interviews of him i've seen strike me as an STP. I realize the assumptions on this forum are that STs cannot be creative and such, but there is a bizarre manner in which STPs get confused with INFJs when they lead. I think this is because they share all the same functions, but in a different order. INFJs are intensely private. He is a showman, and an incredible business man. He adores shock value - something that INFJs avoid like the plague. He could be the same type as Madonna.
    What interviews have you seen? I see nothing in the interviews I link to in the OP that says STP. There is also IMO no way he is an Extrovert (like Madonna).

    I don't see artistic shock value and showmanship on stage as foreign to the INFJ. In interviews he is polite and soft-spoken.

    What makes you say he is an incredible businessman? He alienated Trent Reznor who produced his best album; that was a pretty dumb move.

    INFJs are very private, nuanced, complex, inward, hidden. Their expression is not overt, shocking, showman style.
    I think perhaps you're over-focusing on the shock value and under-focusing on his behavior in interviews and on his general message. He has (had) more to say than, say, Ozzy or Madonna ever had. Did you read the written statement I link to in the OP?

    A major theme in his lyrics is authenticity, btw. The word "fake" occurs about as frequently as the other F word.

  10. #10
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Economica View Post
    I think perhaps you're over-focusing on the shock value and under-focusing on his behavior in interviews and on his general message. He has (had) more to say than, say, Ozzy or Madonna ever had.
    Yes, if you catch the "real him," he's very soft-spoken and not as brash/blunt like ISTP tends to be. I don't know if I'd use the word "delicate" but he's not the sort to just throw a stone at a glass house in order to see what happen, as IxTP tends to do. Everything seems very much calculated, planned, and purposeful, for some deeper purpose.

    A major theme in his lyrics is authenticity, btw. The word "fake" occurs about as frequently as the other F word.
    Yes, it's all show -- and not like "Spinal Tap / Ozzy or Kiss" show either. Those bands are much more SP in nature, playing around and not really care who they are offending. I get the impression that Manson is very particular and careful about how and who he offends; he's not goofing around.

    The INFJ women actors I've known love to fall into another role. When they have to be themselves, they often seem formalized to some degree -- they impose a structure over their social interaction with others. But when they act, their literally become someone else and do not see that as duplicity but simply as the opportunity to be a different person.

    Manson seems very much the same way. His stage show is a very calculated image.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

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