Marilyn Manson's type

[visaisahero]

Incidentally, can anybody see the similarities between Marilyn Manson, Yoko Ono and Lady Gaga?

 

[Venom]

Incidentally, can anybody see the similarities between Marilyn Manson, Yoko Ono and Lady Gaga?

That they are Se over Ne? (regardless of how high up the order it is)

INFJ gone crazy is my vote. Read up on "the real lady gaga" before she became lady gaga. We are talking julieard shit! --> well mannered pianist --> MTV extra reality wannabe --> "sell out" (though I actually like her music) total Se whore....hmmm introverted person who is an N, who now wants to be cool...hmmmm INFJ!!! Fe-Se N dom!

I personally think these threads are retarded when people try and dig out functions. Unless you are the person being typed, function typing is WORTHLESS. Interaction styles + temperament are the only hope. ESTP and ENTJ are both directing and in-charge for example --> worthless to ascribe directing behavior to Te dom only...

 

[Andy]

Robert De Niro is an INFP, but your point is correct, some fantastic character actors (such as YouTube - Premonition of Sir Alec Guiness ) are/were INFJs.

Getting back to MM, the two most obvious questions you have to ask are

1) What is this person's extroverted function?

2) Does this person extrovert or introvert feeling?

Obviously, in some cases, if you answer the first you answer the second...

MM may well have many moral issues which he feels the need to communicate, but his primary method of doing so is through his music and image. This suggests Se to me, even if you do consider his image to be rather put together, a tool to be used.

He doesn't seem to give a flying coitus what anyone thinks, so I'm guessing feeling is introverted. Over all, I'd speculate ISFP.

 

[visaisahero]

That they are Se over Ne? (regardless of how high up the order it is)

INFJ gone crazy is my vote. Read up on "the real lady gaga" before she became lady gaga. We are talking julieard shit! --> well mannered pianist --> MTV extra reality wannabe --> "sell out" (though I actually like her music) total Se whore....hmmm introverted person who is an N, who now wants to be cool...hmmmm INFJ!!! Fe-Se N dom!

I personally think these threads are retarded when people try and dig out functions. Unless you are the person being typed, function typing is WORTHLESS. Interaction styles + temperament are the only hope. ESTP and ENTJ are both directing and in-charge for example --> worthless to ascribe directing behavior to Te dom only...

I don't get it- why would you say that the well-mannered pianist represents her identity more than who she is today? She was doing what she had to do to achieve what she hoped to achieve, it was a means to an end. If you worked a 9 to 5 job to save up money to finance your metal band, is it the job that represents who you really are? I personally believe that the best way to see a person's real identity is to give them power and freedom- THAT'S when you'll see their true colours.

INFJ gone crazy IS a possibility; INTP is just a more straightforward answer. Of course, nobody will know for sure but the woman herself.

 

[evilrobot]

I personally think these threads are retarded when people try and dig out functions. Unless you are the person being typed, function typing is WORTHLESS. Interaction styles + temperament are the only hope. ESTP and ENTJ are both directing and in-charge for example --> worthless to ascribe directing behavior to Te dom only...

It’s not worthless, but people overestimate it’s accuracy. For one thing, function order may not perfectly match someone’s type; people can have exceptional usage of a function or functions (or certain aspects of a function) other than the dominant and auxiliary functions assigned to their type. For another, the 8 functions are limited in defining personality dimensions, art, music and literature.

 

[OrangeAppled]

Madonna's an ESTP, so it is possible to confuse the two, but of course ETJs are far more directive and definitive than ESTPs. An ESTP perceives Se realities in an objective or dispassionate fashion, an ETJ issues objective organizing judgments based on their perceptive function. There is overlap most clearly on answers requiring concision.

The fact that Madonna extroverts feeling is another tip off to her not being an ETJ...

Of course, it is possible that some people create a persona which is only "taken off" in the privacy of their own home--but that's highly unlikely, and with Madonna and most public figures, you've got hundreds of pages of interview material to work with...

I don't see her extroverting Feeling at all. She comes off very cold and direct in interviews. I still think ENTJ with an ESTP persona.

I can imagine that Madonna would be an ExTJ and I don't know anything about Sioxsie Sioux, but Lady Gaga is certainly not an ENTJ. If you asked me, I'd say she's an INTP too, in almost the same manner as Manson. She is introverted and creates a larger-than-life persona to 'hide' behind. Lady Gaga is not so much an artist as she is an idea; I wouldn't say the same for Madonna. They are two VERY different personalities, the only similarity being that they're both larger-than-life: but in very different ways, and for very different reasons.

I am very certain that Lady Gaga wouldn't want to be Madonna, given the chance. She considers Yoko Ono to be an influence.

I know less about her, but I get a Ni vibe and similar feeling of a contrived persona, the same one I get from Madonna. I would defer to someone who knows more about her. Manson also gives me that vibe, which was the point of my first post.

 

[Mipp]

I've been on a Marilyn Manson kick lately, watching some of his old documentaries and interviews, and I'm thinking he's INTP, with a chance of being INTJ.

Manson displays a lot of the dark humor associated with INTPs. He displays this in most of his interviews, but particularly check out the one with Adam Carolla. In the "Midnight Blue" interview he makes a joke about the band being "a front for a child pornography ring", riffing on his own eviler-than-thou image.

Speaking of image, Manson even did the INTPish adapting to those around us thing, when he met Bradley Stewart (Gidget Gein) and adopted his style. Gein's colored hair and makeup was the basis for Manson's famous appearance; Manson didn't dress that way until he met Gein. The Marilyn Manson persona itself seems to have been a 'mask', a public face so to speak, that he eventually began to live in full time. He was furious over his first arrest because the police released his real name (Brian Warner) and he didn't want his fans to associate his original self with Marilyn Manson.

Manson also displays his INTPish traits in his intense interest in certain subjects. He is extremely interested in philosophy and art, and is well known to be a cinephile, and originally started out as a poet before switching to rock music. When he started his band, he and Gein came up with the theatrical concepts (such as the names and clothing) before so much as writing a note of music, and he was a relentless self-promoter. I believe he is an artist, but not the sort who sits around waiting for inspiration to strike magically from the heavens. When he first started playing gigs, he had friends video record everything so he could go over the tapes later and figure out what worked, what didn't, what to change. Everything about his Marilyn Manson persona was carefully constructed.

Another trait that I think shows he's a T is his pragmatism. Marilyn Manson has gone through about 15 bandmates in about twenty years; he can and will ditch someone who's not working out for whatever reason. In particular see his treatment of Gidget Gein, his friend and co-founder of the band. After Gein's overdose, Manson fired him from the band on Christmas Eve, while Gein was still in rehab. I'm an INTP myself, and I don't like the stereotype of us being heartless, but this is very pragmatic. As their former manager said, "Either you pull your own weight or you get left behind." I'm friends with several people in the music industry, and I see a lot of that behavior in their bands; bandmates who won't show up for practice, or who care more about partying than playing, and thusly hold everyone back. Manson was going to take his band as far as possible, and he wasn't going to drag Gein along with him.

One of his most INTPish traits is his love of wordplay. You see this a LOT in Manson's lyrics, as he invents portmanteaus such as "cocaingels", "phenobarbidoll", "vivi-sex symbol", etc. Even when he proclaims himself a "vaginatarian" in the Grahamn Norton interview.

Interviews and documentaries (all very much NSFW!)

Midnight Blue interview (early-ish Manson): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dnpqEpuTFZw
Adam Carolla interview: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHWUPHYquSY
Dead to the World documentary: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oXEM5VBttw

 

[Speed Gavroche]

INFJ 4w5 So/Sp.

 

[Mipp]

INFJ 4w5 So/Sp.

Can you elaborate on this typing? From what I understand, INFJs tend to be gentle, terrible at lying, and mostly incapable of holding long-term grudges -- none of which fits Marilyn Manson.

 

[Mal12345]

INFJs are at times INTP lookalikes.

 

[mujigay]

Can you elaborate on this typing? From what I understand, INFJs tend to be gentle, terrible at lying, and mostly incapable of holding long-term grudges -- none of which fits Marilyn Manson.

Where on earth have you been getting your information on INFJs?

 

[pinkgraffiti]

an idiot?

 

[Mipp]

Where on earth have you been getting your information on INFJs?

Linda Berens, Nicholas Lore, Otto Krueger, Janet M. Thuesen, and an INFJ messageboard. Actually, I could see Twiggy Ramirez (Manson's bandmate) as an INFJ before I could see Manson as one. Twiggy was bizarre and uncommunicative in earlier interviews, but now that he's soberish he's opened up a lot, and he comes across as warm, shy, and enthusiastic. He also avoids the spotlight, and he lets Manson talk for them whenever possible (but will sometimes hop in with an off-the-wall quip). Twiggy also appears to have the patience of a saint, as he's been best friends with Manson since their teens and rejoined him after a six year estrangement period and they've been all over each other ever since.

More relevent links:

Marilyn Manson's Diary: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9MnKKTrN4k
This peek into his personal life shows Manson is primarily solitary; he prefers staying home and painting to going out, and when he does go out, he and Twiggy sneak into a theater to see The Exorcist (as I mentioned before, Marilyn Manson is a cinephile).

Marilyn & Twiggy on Reznor: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hD4_zwroQI4
A brief example of Manson quipping when given a question he wasn't expecting (with bonus Twiggy humor: "I had to shave his back!").

Marilyn & Twiggy interviewed by Priscilla Russo (Warning: Graphic language): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hD4_zwroQI4
VERY strange interview, where Marilyn and Twiggy encounter an.... unusual woman, who grills them on some very graphic sexual subjects. One of the rare occasions I've seen Marilyn and Twiggy look embarassed. Despite their discomfort, they still try to crack jokes and play along.

 

[Mal12345]

Linda Berens, Nicholas Lore, Otto Krueger, Janet M. Thuesen, and an INFJ messageboard. Actually, I could see Twiggy Ramirez (Manson's bandmate) as an INFJ before I could see Manson as one. Twiggy was bizarre and uncommunicative in earlier interviews, but now that he's soberish he's opened up a lot, and he comes across as warm, shy, and enthusiastic. He also avoids the spotlight, and he lets Manson talk for them whenever possible (but will sometimes hop in with an off-the-wall quip). Twiggy also appears to have the patience of a saint, as he's been best friends with Manson since their teens and rejoined him after a six year estrangement period and they've been all over each other ever since.

More relevent links:

Marilyn Manson's Diary: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9MnKKTrN4k
This peek into his personal life shows Manson is primarily solitary; he prefers staying home and painting to going out, and when he does go out, he and Twiggy sneak into a theater to see The Exorcist (as I mentioned before, Marilyn Manson is a cinephile).

Marilyn & Twiggy on Reznor: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hD4_zwroQI4
A brief example of Manson quipping when given a question he wasn't expecting (with bonus Twiggy humor: "I had to shave his back!").

Those moments of spontaneity are the best. But it sounds like Twiggy said "I'd have to shave his back," regarding Manson's question to him about making love to Trent Reznor. I don't know why all the hair wouldn't just give him something to hang onto.

By the way, your last two video links are identical.

 

[Mipp]

My apologies! The Priscilla Russo interview is here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-zKBgQaeE4 (Repeat: graphic language). I cracked up at the part where Manson says "I think you just enamoured him" and Twiggy gives him this look that seems to say "Betrayer!"

While we're at it, here's the Midnight Blue interview from the early years of the band, which also contains some very graphic content (not even kidding around, there's a bit about halfway through the second half of the interview where Marilyn performs a sexual act on Twiggy). Also, this from the period where they were all, ahem, drug enthusiasts. Watch at your own risk.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZAvCuVCCAY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJAWg8xDtF8

 

[Mal12345]

My apologies! The Priscilla Russo interview is here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-zKBgQaeE4 (Repeat: graphic language).

She's terrible at handling a mic and asks very crude questions. This is typical Youtube fare. It's the type of thing I run across after about five random clicks on links on the suggestion side, at which point I always close my browser tab, leave my computer, and find something better to do.

 

[Blanchard]

Probably, INFJ.

 

[A window to the soul]

ISFP

 

[OrangeAppled]

eNTJ trying to create an INxP-esque image. He's always felt very contrived to me.

I notice Ni-dom and Ni-aux artists like to create elaborate images for themselves (often appearing very SP visually - think Madonna, Lady Gaga, Siouxsie Sioux - all ENTJs NJs, IMO, but appear SP on the surface.).

Okay... I'm going with xNFJ. His droning voice just gives a false impression of being a thinking type. Since he's probably 4w5, INFJ may be more likely.

I think Gaga is INFJ also, Siouxsie is xNTJ (lean towards INTJ now), but I'm back to thinking Madonna is ESTP . Doesn't Bowie seem like an NJ also? Same vibe - elaborate persona with accompanying visual image, but his words/demeanor are not SP at all.

 

[Noir]

Manson - INFJ
Gaga - ENTJ