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  1. #61

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    Incidentally, can anybody see the similarities between Marilyn Manson, Yoko Ono and Lady Gaga?

  2. #62
    Babylon Candle Venom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by visaisahero View Post
    Incidentally, can anybody see the similarities between Marilyn Manson, Yoko Ono and Lady Gaga?
    That they are Se over Ne? (regardless of how high up the order it is)

    INFJ gone crazy is my vote. Read up on "the real lady gaga" before she became lady gaga. We are talking julieard shit! --> well mannered pianist --> MTV extra reality wannabe --> "sell out" (though I actually like her music) total Se whore....hmmm introverted person who is an N, who now wants to be cool...hmmmm INFJ!!! Fe-Se N dom!

    I personally think these threads are retarded when people try and dig out functions. Unless you are the person being typed, function typing is WORTHLESS. Interaction styles + temperament are the only hope. ESTP and ENTJ are both directing and in-charge for example --> worthless to ascribe directing behavior to Te dom only...

  3. #63
    Supreme High Commander Andy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fecal McAngry View Post
    Robert De Niro is an INFP, but your point is correct, some fantastic character actors (such as YouTube - Premonition of Sir Alec Guiness ) are/were INFJs.

    Getting back to MM, the two most obvious questions you have to ask are

    1) What is this person's extroverted function?

    2) Does this person extrovert or introvert feeling?

    Obviously, in some cases, if you answer the first you answer the second...
    MM may well have many moral issues which he feels the need to communicate, but his primary method of doing so is through his music and image. This suggests Se to me, even if you do consider his image to be rather put together, a tool to be used.

    He doesn't seem to give a flying coitus what anyone thinks, so I'm guessing feeling is introverted. Over all, I'd speculate ISFP.

  4. #64

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    Quote Originally Posted by Babylon Candle View Post
    That they are Se over Ne? (regardless of how high up the order it is)

    INFJ gone crazy is my vote. Read up on "the real lady gaga" before she became lady gaga. We are talking julieard shit! --> well mannered pianist --> MTV extra reality wannabe --> "sell out" (though I actually like her music) total Se whore....hmmm introverted person who is an N, who now wants to be cool...hmmmm INFJ!!! Fe-Se N dom!

    I personally think these threads are retarded when people try and dig out functions. Unless you are the person being typed, function typing is WORTHLESS. Interaction styles + temperament are the only hope. ESTP and ENTJ are both directing and in-charge for example --> worthless to ascribe directing behavior to Te dom only...

    I don't get it- why would you say that the well-mannered pianist represents her identity more than who she is today? She was doing what she had to do to achieve what she hoped to achieve, it was a means to an end. If you worked a 9 to 5 job to save up money to finance your metal band, is it the job that represents who you really are? I personally believe that the best way to see a person's real identity is to give them power and freedom- THAT'S when you'll see their true colours.

    INFJ gone crazy IS a possibility; INTP is just a more straightforward answer. Of course, nobody will know for sure but the woman herself.

  5. #65
    Senior Member evilrobot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Babylon Candle View Post
    I personally think these threads are retarded when people try and dig out functions. Unless you are the person being typed, function typing is WORTHLESS. Interaction styles + temperament are the only hope. ESTP and ENTJ are both directing and in-charge for example --> worthless to ascribe directing behavior to Te dom only...
    Itís not worthless, but people overestimate itís accuracy. For one thing, function order may not perfectly match someoneís type; people can have exceptional usage of a function or functions (or certain aspects of a function) other than the dominant and auxiliary functions assigned to their type. For another, the 8 functions are limited in defining personality dimensions, art, music and literature.
    X___________________________________

    If things are not what they seem, and we are forever reminded that this is the caseóthen it must also be observed that enough of us ignore this truth to keep the world from collapsing. ĖThomas Ligotti, The Mystics of Muelenberg

  6. #66
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fecal McAngry View Post
    Madonna's an ESTP, so it is possible to confuse the two, but of course ETJs are far more directive and definitive than ESTPs. An ESTP perceives Se realities in an objective or dispassionate fashion, an ETJ issues objective organizing judgments based on their perceptive function. There is overlap most clearly on answers requiring concision.

    The fact that Madonna extroverts feeling is another tip off to her not being an ETJ...

    Of course, it is possible that some people create a persona which is only "taken off" in the privacy of their own home--but that's highly unlikely, and with Madonna and most public figures, you've got hundreds of pages of interview material to work with...
    I don't see her extroverting Feeling at all. She comes off very cold and direct in interviews. I still think ENTJ with an ESTP persona.

    Quote Originally Posted by visaisahero View Post
    I can imagine that Madonna would be an ExTJ and I don't know anything about Sioxsie Sioux, but Lady Gaga is certainly not an ENTJ. If you asked me, I'd say she's an INTP too, in almost the same manner as Manson. She is introverted and creates a larger-than-life persona to 'hide' behind. Lady Gaga is not so much an artist as she is an idea; I wouldn't say the same for Madonna. They are two VERY different personalities, the only similarity being that they're both larger-than-life: but in very different ways, and for very different reasons.

    I am very certain that Lady Gaga wouldn't want to be Madonna, given the chance. She considers Yoko Ono to be an influence.
    I know less about her, but I get a Ni vibe and similar feeling of a contrived persona, the same one I get from Madonna. I would defer to someone who knows more about her. Manson also gives me that vibe, which was the point of my first post.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

  7. #67
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    I've been on a Marilyn Manson kick lately, watching some of his old documentaries and interviews, and I'm thinking he's INTP, with a chance of being INTJ.

    Manson displays a lot of the dark humor associated with INTPs. He displays this in most of his interviews, but particularly check out the one with Adam Carolla. In the "Midnight Blue" interview he makes a joke about the band being "a front for a child pornography ring", riffing on his own eviler-than-thou image.

    Speaking of image, Manson even did the INTPish adapting to those around us thing, when he met Bradley Stewart (Gidget Gein) and adopted his style. Gein's colored hair and makeup was the basis for Manson's famous appearance; Manson didn't dress that way until he met Gein. The Marilyn Manson persona itself seems to have been a 'mask', a public face so to speak, that he eventually began to live in full time. He was furious over his first arrest because the police released his real name (Brian Warner) and he didn't want his fans to associate his original self with Marilyn Manson.

    Manson also displays his INTPish traits in his intense interest in certain subjects. He is extremely interested in philosophy and art, and is well known to be a cinephile, and originally started out as a poet before switching to rock music. When he started his band, he and Gein came up with the theatrical concepts (such as the names and clothing) before so much as writing a note of music, and he was a relentless self-promoter. I believe he is an artist, but not the sort who sits around waiting for inspiration to strike magically from the heavens. When he first started playing gigs, he had friends video record everything so he could go over the tapes later and figure out what worked, what didn't, what to change. Everything about his Marilyn Manson persona was carefully constructed.

    Another trait that I think shows he's a T is his pragmatism. Marilyn Manson has gone through about 15 bandmates in about twenty years; he can and will ditch someone who's not working out for whatever reason. In particular see his treatment of Gidget Gein, his friend and co-founder of the band. After Gein's overdose, Manson fired him from the band on Christmas Eve, while Gein was still in rehab. I'm an INTP myself, and I don't like the stereotype of us being heartless, but this is very pragmatic. As their former manager said, "Either you pull your own weight or you get left behind." I'm friends with several people in the music industry, and I see a lot of that behavior in their bands; bandmates who won't show up for practice, or who care more about partying than playing, and thusly hold everyone back. Manson was going to take his band as far as possible, and he wasn't going to drag Gein along with him.

    One of his most INTPish traits is his love of wordplay. You see this a LOT in Manson's lyrics, as he invents portmanteaus such as "cocaingels", "phenobarbidoll", "vivi-sex symbol", etc. Even when he proclaims himself a "vaginatarian" in the Grahamn Norton interview.

    Interviews and documentaries (all very much NSFW!)

    Midnight Blue interview (early-ish Manson): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dnpqEpuTFZw
    Adam Carolla interview: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHWUPHYquSY
    Dead to the World documentary: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oXEM5VBttw

  8. #68
    Whisky Old & Women Young Speed Gavroche's Avatar
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    INFJ 4w5 So/Sp.
    EsTP 6w7 Sx/Sp

    Chaotic Neutral

    E=60% S=55% T=70% P=80%

    "I don't believe in guilt, I only believe in living on impulses"

    "Stereotypes about personality and gender turn out to be fairly accurate: ... On the binary Myers-Briggs measure, the thinking-feeling breakdown is about 30/70 for women versus 60/40 for men." ~ Bryan Caplan

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speed Gavroche View Post
    INFJ 4w5 So/Sp.
    Can you elaborate on this typing? From what I understand, INFJs tend to be gentle, terrible at lying, and mostly incapable of holding long-term grudges -- none of which fits Marilyn Manson.

  10. #70
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    INFJs are at times INTP lookalikes.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    ‚ÄúCulture?‚ÄĚ says Paul McCartney. ‚ÄúThis isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.‚ÄĚ

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