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  1. #21
    Dhampyr Economica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Economica View Post
    As for the overall INFJ reading, isn't he in fact a poster boy?
    Quote Originally Posted by toonia View Post
    I worked for a male INFJ employer. Not even close.
    Yay, someone else brought the personal recognition argument to the table! I see your male INFJ employer and I raise you a close male INFJ friend (Fisherking).

    By poster boy I was referring to his poetically just messiah identity. (See the OP.)

    Regarding Introversion, I actually see him as a clear-cut Introvert based on his interactive style in interviews. He is in the limelight, but I see him as being there in service of his Ni rather than because he craves the attention itself. (Notice how he idealistically refused to give interviews in the Columbine aftermath but simply published the written statement I link to in the OP.) Compare with other image-heavy shock artists (Madonna, say) who wanted all eyes on them but then turned out to have nothing to say.

  2. #22
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    I personally think that Madonna is more ENTP. Most say ESTP, but ESTPs don't really try to shock because as Sensors, they're more earthy, they're into performance purely for enjoyment.

  3. #23
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Economica View Post
    Regarding Introversion, I actually see him as a clear-cut Introvert based on his interactive style in interviews...
    He looks extroverted to me there. He is incredibly smooth with his answers - and quick to respond. I didn't notice him introvert at all in the clips attached here. I guess that's just a subjective perception. Put an actual introvert in that same context and it will be looking quite different. Robert DeNiro is a good example of that.

    Even if he had looked like he was introverting, mannerisms are gained childhood associations and can mean a variety of things. Actions are a far stronger determiner of I/E. Time spent alone - what percentage of one's time is alone or with groups is an indicator. What info is there regarding this?
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

  4. #24
    Dhampyr Economica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by toonia View Post
    He looks extroverted to me there. He is incredibly smooth with his answers - and quick to respond.
    In the O'Reilly interview, he's prepared for the questions. When that's the case, I can be that smooth too.

    I'll link to more interviews where his introversion is more obvious after I grab dinner.

    I didn't notice him introvert at all in the clips attached here. I guess that's just a subjective perception. Put an actual introvert in that same context and it will be looking quite different. Robert DeNiro is a good example of that.
    Are you saying that Robert De Niro's level of Introversion is representative?

    What info is there regarding this?
    Dunno. He paints a lot.

  5. #25
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Economica View Post
    Are you saying that Robert De Niro's level of Introversion is representative?
    It is representative of the introverts i'm accustomed to. Perhaps my view is skewed by more intense introversion? My understanding is that introversion is more than just being a little shy and spending some free time alone, but rather it is someone whose energy is depleted by the pressures of social interaction whether this be performance, small talk, interviews, etc. While it is true that people often choose to do what they fear the most, the introvert's recovery time will be apparent in their life. Here are some examples of introverts including some performers.

    1. Principal performer for a major orchestra in Chicago spends her off season living completely alone in a remote cabin.

    2. University composition professor lives alone and resists the efforts of neighbors to interact. He doesn't greet those he passes or engage in small talk. He is seen as aloof and austere. He spends his time alone composing, reading literature and philosophy.

    3. Programmer with social anxiety lives alone and only interacts with others online. He works from home and occassionally drives to a scenic location to spend time taking pictures which he then posts on the internet. Days, even weeks can pass without interacting with people irl.

    4. An introverted couple never once in their lifetimes have anyone over for dinner. They spend much of their time together on their computers or watching tv. They rarely ever interact socially outside the home.

    5. A fledgling performer gives a few concerts a year which are dreaded for their social dimension. While setting up the eager audiences watch her asking questions. This creates a level of anxiety and depletion that places the performance at risk.

    6. After attending a required society meeting in which there are politics and social complexities, one introvert spends time observing and smiling, then immediately falls asleep on returning home in order to recuperate.

    7. An introverted programmer is distracted and uncomfortable with questions about his life and thoughts. He feels no pressure whatsoever to answer. He is unbothered by the potential social tension this creates.

    Everyone feels a little shy in life and can get tired from too much activity. Introverts are a minority because they require alone time primarily to recoup. Most people are somewhere inbetween where they can get some energy from people and some from alone time. Introverts who spend their entire lives performing, giving interviews, meeting fans, etc. would either go crazy, require stimulants, or significant alone time that would be difficult to miss. The celebrity lifestyle pushes the boundaries of what an extrovert can handle. It is not the domain of the introvert. The context really skews things. We see someone nervous or reticent in a highly social environment and assume introversion. Extroverts get nervous over this stuff. Introverts tend to shut down in relation to such environments. DeNiro showed signs of shutting down. The rest don't. I was also going to suggest that Kidman is not an introvert after thinking about it more.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

  6. #26
    Dhampyr Economica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by toonia View Post
    It is representative of the introverts i'm accustomed to. Perhaps my view is skewed by more intense introversion?
    I would say so.

    I don't think I'll bother looking for more MM interviews if that is your measure of introversion. (Not out of disrespect but because I won't find any interviews where he shuts down like you describe.)

  7. #27
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Economica View Post
    I would say so.

    I don't think I'll bother looking for more MM interviews if that is your measure of introversion. (Not out of disrespect but because I won't find any interviews where he shuts down like you describe.)
    Our friend Wiki
    Quote Originally Posted by wikipedia on introversion
    Introversion is "the state of or tendency toward being wholly or predominantly concerned with and interested in one's own mental life".[2] Introverts tend to be quiet, low-key, deliberate, and relatively non-engaged in social situations. They take pleasure in solitary activities such as reading, writing, drawing, watching movies, listening to music, inventing, and designing. An introverted person is likely to enjoy time spent alone and find less reward in time spent with large groups of people (although they may enjoy one-to-one or one-to-few interactions with close friends). They prefer to concentrate on a single activity at a time and like to observe situations before they participate.[4]

    Introversion is not the same as shyness, though introverts are often also shy. Introverts choose solitary over social activities by preference, whereas shy people avoid social encounters out of fear. [5]

    An introvert is energized when alone. Introverts tend to "fade" when with people and can easily become overstimulated with too many others around. Introverts tend to think before speaking . When given the chance, an introvert will sit alone and think rather than talk with someone else.
    Quote Originally Posted by wikipedia on extroversion
    Extraversion is "the act, state, or habit of being predominantly concerned with and obtaining gratification from what is outside the self".[2] Extraverts tend to enjoy human interactions and to be enthusiastic, talkative, assertive, and gregarious. They take pleasure in activities that involve large social gatherings, such as parties, community activities, public demonstrations, and business or political groups. An extraverted person is likely to enjoy time spent with people and find less reward in time spent alone. They enjoy risk-taking and often show leadership abilities.[3]

    An extravert is energized when around other people. Extraverts tend to "fade" when alone and can easily become bored without other people around. Extraverts tend to think as they speak. When given the chance, an extravert will talk with someone else rather than sit alone and think.
    In the O'Reilly interview, i believe, MM recounted when a fan came up on stage and took off their clothes. MM evidently took the opportunity to perform some type of simulated sex act that was controversial. I'll just venture that anyone with the 'wherewithall' to respond to such a situation in that manner is prolly not an introvert. HELLO
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

  8. #28
    Dhampyr Economica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by toonia View Post
    Our friend Wiki
    Seriously, toonia, I think you were right to ask whether your view was skewed by more intense introversion. I could do a talk show as well (regarding level of I-E) as MM, NK etc. and so could many definite Introverts I know.

    But perhaps that question was just rhetorical, fellow INXJ?

  9. #29
    Senior Member Blackwater's Avatar
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    In this article, publications from the last 15 years are used to describe introversion. Without pledging allegience to MM as an introvert I'll say that modern psychological definitions of introversion tend to differ from the way MBTI regards it. One example is the fact that in MBTI, if you are 51% I and 49% E you will, for all practical purposes, be regarded as I within the model. This is not compatible with modern empirical research.

    So watch out for those confusing double meanings - they'll all too easily trigger a nonsense discussion.
    best collection of philosopher typings online

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  10. #30
    Dhampyr Economica's Avatar
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    Status:

    - Jennifer, Uberfuhrer and I say INFJ
    - ptgatsby says INFX, possibly INFJ
    - Blackwater says NFJ
    - toonia says ?

    Anyone else want to contribute to the typing? I'd like to be beyond sure about this one.

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