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  1. #61
    Senior Member the state i am in's Avatar
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    i don't think of isfps as "insane micromanagers." i don't see a natural connection between wes anderson and ernest hemingway, nor do i think of wes anderson as the "rugged outdoor" type. that seems ludicrous. but i will agree that his visual detail, the "bric a brac" criticism, and the inserts for his films do seem more Se than Ne. i would be interested to know more about what the writing process looks like for him. when he speaks he seems somewhat disjointed, but the 4w3 sophistication still comes through.

    i don't think i misunderstand S. i think, if anything, it is difficult to interpret and expect in an exacting way the balance of S-N perception in various types, especially when they are developed differently in different enneagram types. yet tertiary Ni is not dominant Ni, just like inferior Se is not auxilary Se. the role they play is so different, because they contribute to such a different organism.

    there is a tendency to associate quirky with N. this is bc N frees you from seeing a problem or an action in the same way, a concrete as-it-is kind of way. imaginative perception opens up possibilities, but also loses focuses and is generally less aware of implementation details on a zoomed in kind of way. it abstracts to think across time, over different distances and scopes.

    wes, on the contrary, does seem to have what works for him and is gonna stick to it.

    his world does have the feel it does based on the composition of the shot, the visual detail, and the visual details of the characters. plus music. the dialogue makes it sound 4w3, very much classic playwright wit/banter/absurdity. it's definitely very down to earth and not conceptual. i think i'm convinced.

  2. #62
    brainheart
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    Typically, ISFPs I don't think are 'insane micromanagers', but when it comes to their art, I think they can get downright obsessive. I know I can spend hours doing something over and over, refining like crazy, until I'm pleased with it. It's noticeable because it's so different than how I am otherwise.


    Convinced? Awesome.

  3. #63
    Senior Member the state i am in's Avatar
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    probably convinced about the Se. i don't see an Fi dominant yet. i'm still arguing about this in my head. i don't think isfp brings him come fully into focus.

  4. #64
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scorquendo View Post
    According to Kiersey, he's listed as a ISFP.

    According to Kiersey, he's listed at ISFP.
    According to Kiersey, anyone with a shred of artistic talent is ISFP.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

  5. #65
    Senior Member Killjoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brainheart View Post
    This list is ridiculous. Film direction is totally ISFP/ISTP territory- observant, keen eye for detail, telling a story via images... I'm not saying that there aren't other types that are directors, obviously there are, but to have two ISFP directors listed? Come on.

    Wes Anderson, for one, is fully an ISFP, I'd say enneagram 4w3. Just read an interview with him. Or watch one of his films.

    I'd also say Spike Jonze is either ISTP or ISFP. He used to make skateboarding videos, for crying out loud.

    And I thought it had already been firmly established that Woody Allen is an ISTP.

    Terrence Malick has got to be an ISFP.

    Malick is INFP. I'd say the same for Wes Anderson (Maybe INTP).

    Woody Allen - xNTP (Though INFJ is possible)

    Perhaps directing is sensor territory, but filmmaking requires more than attention to detail and pretty pictures.

  6. #66
    Senior Member the state i am in's Avatar
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    i think woody allen is a 3w4, which i think makes the entp intp split all the more difficult (and probably irrelevant) to discern.

    wes doesn't look like an infp. yet i too want to call him an intp. if he's a 4w3 like beck, does that make sense?

    i do get the sense of technical invention that reminds me of ntp. Ne is probably the best in actualizing a vision than any other function (think entp marketers), especially if the vision is skewed or requires more assemblage from disparate parts. Se seems to know how to work already beautiful/stunning objects, but i don't see it inventing new ones. which is why i see Ne for someone like spike jonze (also, i don't see being john malkovich as an Se film, even if charlie kaufman wrote it).

    wes definitely invents very different ways of seeing (life aquatic submarine, fantastic mr fox). my s.o. is adamant that he's an N.

  7. #67
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the state i am in View Post
    Se seems to know how to work already beautiful/stunning objects, but i don't see it inventing new ones.
    Ah, but Se is in the aux position for ISFPs. Fi is inherently creative and does have original ideas. Many Fi-doms report very visual thinking, which includes images and atmosphere.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by the state i am in View Post
    i think woody allen is a 3w4, which i think makes the entp intp split all the more difficult (and probably irrelevant) to discern.
    Maybe this might change things up for Woody:

    On STANLEY KUBRICK:
    "Stanley Kubrick was a great artist. I say this all the time and people think I'm being facetious. I'm not. Kubrick was a guy who obsessed over details and did 100 takes, and you know, I don't feel that way. If I'm shooting a film and it's 6 o'clock at night and I've got a take, and I think I might be able to get a better take if I stayed, but the Knicks tipoff is at 7:30, then that's it. The crews love working on my movies because they know they'll be home by 6."

    "I was never bothered if a film was not well received. But the converse of that is that I never get a lot of pleasure out of it if it is. I'm a compromising person, definitely. It's that I don't get much from either side."

    "I never wanted movies to be an end. I wanted them to be a means so that I could have a decent life -- meet attractive women, go out on dates, live decently. A guy like Steven Spielberg will go live in the desert to make a movie, or Martin Scorsese will make a picture in India and set up camp and live there for four months. I mean, for me, if I'm not shooting in my neighborhood, it's annoying. I have no commitment to my work in that sense. No dedication."

  9. #69
    Senior Member the state i am in's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    Ah, but Se is in the aux position for ISFPs. Fi is inherently creative and does have original ideas. Many Fi-doms report very visual thinking, which includes images and atmosphere.
    i don't think it is inherently creative. or, i don't know what you really mean by that statement. it is a) a cumulative learning function (bc it is introverted) and b) an organizational system for holistic judgment like a huge master map of web diagrams.

    but it's not a perceptual process like Ni, so it doesn't travel along them by way of some mind's eye. it recognizes them in Pe articulations, it attaches them to those expressions, tweaking them to find something that better suits them/encompasses them. Se is still pretty cut and dry, concrete, sensory information. it is detailed and designed, but not representational or symbolic or abstract or metaphoric. the assemblage is not from as many sources, or does not introduce as many unlike terms that require conversion, metaphor, abstraction to bring them into the same plane.

    they definitely tie objects to feelings, subjective experiences, etc. bob dylan is to isfps what the buddha is to infjs. bob dylan feels like he's always on the move, witnessing, filming, telling stories, etc. eddie vedder does this too, and i think elliott smith is a good example as well. i think the tertiary Ni, tho, is highly necessary to contextualize them into a larger vision, to see how they fit together in a coherency that isn't strictly Fi. or Ne which will turn over sleeplessly until it finds the right idea to go to bed with.



    i don't see how that changes anything for woody. he loves to hear himself talk, blow smoke up yr ass, and call it a day. he doesn't want anyone ever telling him who he is. he wants to create images of himself to keep people guessing, at a distance, etc. he loves to talk about himself ceaselessly in his films, star in them, dream about himself. he cares very much what others think, that's a huge part of his whole schtick.

  10. #70
    brainheart
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    Ah, but Se is in the aux position for ISFPs. Fi is inherently creative and does have original ideas. Many Fi-doms report very visual thinking, which includes images and atmosphere.
    Thank you. I don't think people take judging functions into account enough when they make their decisions on other's types.

    Orange, I'm just curious, what do you think is a good description of an INFP? And what makes you certain you are an INFP, not ISFP? I'm not saying you aren't INFP in any way- if that's what you say you are, you are- I'm just wondering.

    And yes, Keirsey I think oversimplifies stuff, but I also see a lot of that on the other end, more so I'm inclined to say, especially on this forum. It's like if someone has an original thought they think the person must be an intuitive. It's like we sensors are cameras, just taking pictures of stuff. It's ludicrous.

    (This isn't to you, Orange):

    Sensors, by the by, have four functions as well. We can grasp abstract concepts, we just appreciate them tied to something real, concrete examples. Same with metaphors, etc. I was a fucking film production/ film studies major/ English minor, for christ sake. I took film theory classes, philosophy classes. I graduated with a 3.7 GPA. I know how to write a kick ass paper. But I am an ISFP. How do I know this? Because in my classes when people talked endlessly of theory, spirituality I would get restless... that doesn't mean I couldn't understand it or employ it if I found it useful or necessary, I'd just rather focus on something real. (Of course there's more to it, but I'd say this is a key sign. Also that I feel better to be doing something hands on vs focusing on analysis.)

    For this reason, if I see someone who is also capable of the above, like me, I am not going to automatically assume that they are an intuitive. These assumptions piss me the hell off, primarily because they are flat-out wrong.

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